Morey has built a solid team :)

The gap is small,and I would prefer Udoh but Hill can jump quicker than him. Udoh's big advantage is his timing,and IQ which can lead to fewer fouls. That makes him more valuable,and less likely to be tradable for Hill.

 

Rebounding and scoring matter. Hill and Udoh are the same age. What advantages are Udoh's athleticism if he makes Battier and Chuck look like all stars on the offensive end?

Not that I would be opposed to getting a shot blocker. Udo and Thabeet would be nice guys to try to develop, but I wouldn't give up Hill for them. Bud, maybe.

 

How is Udoh more athletic? He bench presses less, jumps less, scores less, rebounds less. His redeeming quality is 0.3 extra blocks a game.

 

I'd trade Hill for Thorpe or Oakley in a second. What happened to the NBA with all the bruiser power forwards? Team's too soft.

 

I wouldnt expect a straight up trade. It actually would be great to keep both. Hopefully the more he plays we'll start to hear if GS is willing to trade him or not.

Hill isn't a much better rebounder, if at all, so i wouldn't give him the edge there. He's also no a great scorer, not even a good scorer, so again not much of an edge. Udoh has a jumper, can clean up around the rim and pretty much do what Hill can offensively at this point. Hill's potential is in moving with the ball off the dribble and polishing his post moves, but that's not a given at this point.

I was really refering just to shot blocking though. You'd expect hill's advantage in height/vertical to help him more, but they're not, compared to Udoh.

I never said he was. I asked how hill was more athletic. I think they're pretty similar, at least based on those stats. Udoh benched one less rep at the combine. I wouldn't say that's a definite sign of less strength because for all we know he almost completed that last rep and hill barely completed his last one. One more or less isn't significant at all. It could simply be due to having a good day or bad day.

I'm not sure what scoring or rebounding have to do with athleticism. I see how it helps in certain cases, but how well you do either is not going to define how athletic you are. Athleticism is how well you can use your motor skills, so it's better directly measured through the tests the combine does, like bench press, sprints, jumps, etc, and their results were similar. In the area where hill tested better, you'd expect that to help him more with shot blocking than anything, yet it's not, at least compared to Udoh.

Where did you get he averages only 0.3 blocks more a game?

 

Hill is averaging 2.5 rebounds more per 36 min in the NBA and 1 more per game in their last college seasons.
Hill scores about 8 more points than Udoh per 36 min in the NBA and about 5 more per game in college. Against NBA competition, Hill was scoring at the same TS% as Udoh was in the NCAAs.
Hill is the better FT shooter.
Hill is the better scorer inside the paint.
Udoh is a better jump shooter and a better three point shooter. Hill is better at recognizing dunks are more efficient than jump shots.

 

Like i said, he's not a much better rebounder (college is better comparison than the 36 min stat in the NBA, where Udoh hasnt played enough)

I get he's better offensively, but thats not saying much when Hill isn't a good scorer. By that i mean he's not someone you can count on in one on one situations consistently. I know he may still improve that, but i still put him as a less explosive and fluid Amar'e. On the other hand, Udoh can pretty much become exactly what Okafor is(maybe even produce better shot blocking numbers), and he's got a much better chance of reaching that than Hill reaching his potential. Is there really a large gap between Okafor and a poor man's Amar'e on offense?

If they reach their potential i'd expect Hill to be only a slightly better talent and Udoh a much better fit on this team.

 

Saying Udoh and Hill are the same at rebounding and scoring is like saying Hill is a better shot blocker than Udoh.

I don't care about how you project Udoh offensively. At the same age or younger in some cases, Hill has out scored and scored more efficiently, out rebounded, and out stolen Udoh. They are the same age and yet Udoh can't even get statistically relevant stats to compare to Hill's NBA stats. Hill isn't a great scorer, but Udoh is much worse.

1 rpg and 5 ppg in their last college seasons is a huge deficit that makes 2 blocks per game irrelevant. Hill has NBA stats. Udoh doesn't yet and it doesn't look good for him except for blocking shots.

The Rockets don't need more one dimensional players over someone like Hill.

 

The numbers don't suggest he's a better rebounder, unless you think 1 more a game is significantly better, which i can't see how it would be. Using the 36 projection isn't a good idea, it blows up the stats. Maybe if he played more minutes, but for players under 20 mins a game it's not a good prediction, otherwise I'd say Udoh would average 4.5 blocks a game.

Offensively I initially said hill didn't have that much of an edge now because he wasnt developed enough. You have to take into consideration how hill is scoring and not simply his efficiency. Don't get me wrong, efficiency is good, but he's getting a lot of points by being set up, rather than his own skills. He also isn't putting up a lot of shots. The less a big man shoots, the easier it is for them to be efficient, especially if he's limited to mostly being set up with good shots/layups/dunks. I did agree he's better offensively, so im definitely not saying they're the same offensively, but 2 buckets and one free throw is not a "huge deficit". It seems like the difference right now is mostly based on the number and quality of the opportunities given. You don't think Udoh would improve his offensive numbers in Adelman's offense? Hill has definitely benefited from it. Jordan has to show more one on one abilities and consistency before he can pull away signficantly from Udoh as a scorer, otherwise Udoh would put up similar offensive and rebounding numbers in the same role, but significantly more blocked shots.

Ideally, you pick up udoh and trade away budinger somewhow. Let Twill take a crack at the 3 spot and that helps balance out the roster and improves it as well

 

can someone please please make a thread about banning tatoos (and current/future tattooed players) from the NBA? Jesus, Im not conservative my any means but even then im apalled by players such as chris anderson and even lebron james full of that crap. Those guys belong in prison or picking up my trash. BTW denver sucks as a team without Melo. I actually hope he stays....

 

What about Monta Ellis? That guy is more tattoo than human now...

 

1 rpg is big. The 5 ppg difference is big. All this was also done when Hill was a year younger Udoh. Hill getting to NBA faster and getting experience under the NBA is huge. Heck, Hill rebounded as well in the NBA as Udoh did in the NCAA last year.

I totally expect Udoh to get huge numbers of block shots. That is why I want him. He will change some games with his one skill. I just don't expect he'll be able to do much else. He didn't score a lot in college despite being older than most of his competition. He had average numbers rebounding. I don't see him as being able to play man to man defense, yet.

He would be a nice guy to have at the end of the bench. Hill is more likely to be a good player. Patterson is more likely than both to be a good player. Udoh does have a small chance of being great player as he does have one great skill.

 

Steve Francis


Rudy T was a players coach... IMO

 

Rudy T really instilled a lot of discipline on his players. You think Robert Horry and Sam Cassell became successful veterans by accident?[/QUOTE]


Steve Francis


Rudy T was a players coach... IMO

 

Agred, remove him, melo, lebron etc keep wade, wall, kevin martin, stuckey, garnett, pierce (pretty much the whole lakers team), (most of the celtics team), (most of the spurs team) etc......at least keep ones that'll keep em under their jerseys and what not............saw the birdman again tonight and that is plane disgusting (im not a racist, conservative or whatever anti-me you want to come up with)

 

The rockets are and have been moving this way and this may have to do with adelman and morey, so to keep the subject of this thread going....morey has built a solid team, i guess (physically presentable).

 

Talk about seeing the grass as greener on the other side. Udoh is only getting 12 mins of PT and only averaging 2.3 rebs and 1.8 pts. How can you even say Udoh is the better fit when he only averages 1.8 pts a game? On average that's less than two baskets and 2 rebs a game, how can you judge whether someone is better fit based on such a small sample size?

All we know is they are the same age, but Hill started playing b-ball late in life, meaning his fundamentals and techinique can still improve a lot. If he's out producing udoh while having such a huge disadvantage what can he do once Carrol Dawson is done with him? Also Hill is much sturdier than Udoh, didn't Udoh miss his rookie year due to injury?

I'd rather keep Hill and PP then trade significant assets for another F/C hybrid, especially one who already missed a year due to injury.

 

As others have pointed out, very good analogy. A better one is an elipse, where the revolution is around two points.

 

I dont think it's very difficult to figure out why he's a better fit. He's a shot blocker, a very good one. We have little of that in the front court. I''m not sure why you're focusing more on his scoring. His PT is limited and he's playing with two scoring point guards and a SF who shoot a gazillion jumpshots. He's also playing behind Lee and Biedrins, so that's not helping. Pretty much all his numbers are low at this point, but it's not like he buried on the bench because he's not good enough to play more minutes. He just came back from an injury and is working his way back into shape.

Sturdier? Where do you get that from? Udoh is a rookie. He was drafted this summer and missed some time earlier this year due to a wrist injury. It's not his body breaking down, just a freak accident. Last 3 games he's playing 20 mins a game and averaging 3 blocks a game, and 4.3 rebs, which is about what hill is averging for the season at about 17 mins per game.



"(Warriors coach) Keith Smart said Udoh is moving up the rotation fast," Marcus Thompson of the Bay Area News Group wrote on his Twitter page. "Sounds like conditioning is the only obstacle."Udoh played two seasons at Michigan, then one at Baylor before leaving for the NBA.

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20101227...ne-Ekpe-Udoh’s-NBA-stock-rising#ixzz19IKJNJlY

And Udoh sat out a year because he transfered to Baylor, or else he would have came in last year like Jordan Hill. If Jordan hill can still improve b ecause he started basketball late, then can't Udoh improve as well? Also, draft express had a comment saying although Udoh wasn't as explosive as Hill, he he was more polished on both ends (talking about their college game). I'll admit i dont know how credible the writer is, but maybe there's something to it, like he's not as bad offensively as it seems.