I'm going to apologize because I am angry.. I'm alternating between depression and anger right now over what I've seen happen. What I've seen happen to this neighborhood to businesses that I frequent, businesses that were owned and run by friends and businesses that were clients. DONT FU(%ING BURN DOWN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD! I spent several hours last night helping to treat and patch up people, most of whom were there to protest and several who were probably there to loot. I was working out of a restaurant owned by a local business owner who was sympathetic to the protests and what has that gotten him.. He is waking up this morning to a burned out business. A life's work wiped away. How does that help the cause? How does that help bring justice George Floyd!? You know what I what I saw last night? I saw madness.. It was the same madness following Rodney King.. This wasn't 'I Have a Dream" "This wasn't the March on Selma" This was MADNESS.. If burning down LA and several other cities then had led to the change we want to see why is burning down Minneapolis going to change now? I'm sorry.. I will not accept that looting and burning is an acceptable answer to the problems of systemic racism. Maybe I am just naive but I have to believe that we can be better than that.
It's not an acceptable answer. However it is the human condition as in I don't see a group of humans who would do otherwise given the course of events this particular lineage of people went through. It doesn't mean the individual acts of these rioters are justifiable.
How do you explain the March on Selma? How do you explain the Birmingham Bus Boycott? I believe people can be better because we've seen it.. We've seen change made through peaceful and noble means that enlarged us as a nation. What I saw last night wasn't noble, didn't enlarge us and sure as hell wasn't peaceful. You're accusing me of belittling "those people" but which of us is? The one who expects violence or the one who believes that we can and should be better?
Its not. Its just that all of the other answers haven't done anything either. If these riots hadn't happened, those cops would get a slap on the wrist. I mean...what do you propose be done when the system is so dismissive of these peoples needs? People get tired man.
You explain them by understanding that a subset of a population will always have variance. In the Indian freedom movement, there were violent actors and there was Ghandi. With Palestinians, there are violent actors and actors who want to solve it with peace. That's what happens with large subsets of populations that went through the same events over multiple generations.
Yeah, Reagan + Race Relations = Mud. "I can't do anything to help you people if I don't get elected." (real quote) After getting elected: "What are those blacks complaining about now? Never mind, tell Mother I headed in for my nap." (probable quote) EDIT: On the bright side for Amy Klobuchar haters (my wife among them), all of this likely killed (bad word choice) her chance at VP. Jeez, the video of that cop on the dude's neck is just f***** up. And the cop had, what?, fifteen past complaints filed against him of some sort or another. Maybe time to let up on the steroids....if you can get them in prison at all.
Perhaps, but the PD must also be aware that credibility is going to be questioned... btw, before and during the arrest the reporter was showing his credentials (ignoring that there was also a camera and crew with him)...
I haven't read through the whole thread so I apologize if I am mistaken with the following assumptions about your post: I agree that in a perfect world, looting and rioting would not be the preferred answer to the problem of systemic racism in America and the continued killing of black people by police. However, since you brought up your anger about businesses being destroyed, imagine being a black person that just witnessed one more person of color being killed by a cop. I am not black, but I can imagine that something like that might push a person over the edge. And there have been peaceful protests... yet this stuff still happens, and there are still people that blame the victim. Once again, I don't agree with rioting and destroying businesses, but let's not blame the symptom while ignoring the cause. If there was real progress on this issue, and if we didn't have a president that, at the very least, gives off an air of being a bigot, this riot probably wouldn't be happening.
That's all well and good but they are burning down their own neighborhood. That's the part that doesn't make sense. Fine you can even say that Target and Cub Foods are parts of large corporations. You can rationalize what happened to the H&M and Apple Store in Uptown. But small businesses and non profits were destroyed too. Migizi burned down yesterday. They're a non-profit that works with the local Native American community. All of their archives are now destroyed. Next door to them is an old Indian restaurant that was destroyed. That restaurant has been around for years and the owners are a nice Bengali family who has always tried to support surrounding businesses. An apartment building that was being built was burned down. Near Cub Foods, a freaking school was destroyed and looted. If you're burning down schools, I'm sorry you've lost me. Multiple local Somali owned restaurants were broken into. And there are countless others beyond those that had windows broken. These aren't businesses owned by faceless corporations. These businesses are the livelihood of members of the community. Several blocks around Lake Street are now shut down as well during a time that was already challenging because of Covid-19. The bottom line is that while all of you are focused on justifying the rage behind all of this (and I understand it too), but you all aren't on the ground watching local businesses get destroyed. You aren't watching local business owners lose everything. Target and all the other large stores will be fine. But countless small businesses won't return because of this and the lives of their owners will be changed forever. The looters are destroying their own community and creating a terrifying environment for local families. There are houses just behind Lake Street. Imagine the fear in the families who live there. I know all of you think that looting and burning is sending some kind of message for change but you guys just don't understand the toll this is putting on local families over there. Whatever the message that is being sent isn't worth destroying an entire community in the process.
I will never understand why people want to loot and riot in these situations. A peaceful protest would send a much stronger message. Looting and burning down things in your town and own neighborhoods is really stupid. The owners of the private businesses had absolutely zero to do with what happened. I believe 100% that the officer should be charged with murder and if he isn't it will be a tragedy. I can see why they are angry but if the rioters and looters would become peaceful protesters who simply stand outside the police station and/or the DA office blocking access and traffic refusing to leave until they see justice start to be carried out it would send a MUCH more powerful message.
I don't think you understand what people are saying here. They agree with you that looting is wrong. They are saying that given the conditions that this specific lineage of people experienced for 400 years, rioting, violence etc as retribution seems like the unavoidable outcome. Any subset of humans who's lineage experienced what African Americans experienced for 400 years will NATURALLY result in pockets of riots and violence. This is a universal constant of the human condition. It is unavoidable. It is inevitable. It doesn't mean we don't arrest individuals who are looting. It doesn't mean we don't have empathy for the shop owners who's property was damaged.
I don't understand it too or at the very least I don't condone it but I'm not in their shoes do it's kinda easy for me to say that.
Because peaceful protests against police brutality not only didn't work in the past, it was pushed back by mainstream America and B(lue)LM. BLM were demonized. I'm not in their shoe, but I can understand that anger while I continue to think peaceful protest is the best way to get thing changed (although it's getting very hard to see that here in America). As always, keep in mind that it's not always or none, but some spectrum. That there are protesters, rioters and looters. They aren't all necessary the same people. Probably a small % are.
The people who ought to shut their mouths are the ones who b****ed about NFL players kneeling and now are begging these people to peacefully protest when those people b****ing about Kap never wanted to hear them in the first place.
Then we can agree to disagree on this. Destroying one's own community doesn't feel unavoidable to me. Destroying the livelihood of your neighbors because you're that angry doesn't feel inevitable. In theory, I can at least grasp protesting and attacking the police precinct office a lot more than I understand destroying the local convenience store that was owned by a Somali family. And I feel like as people, we're all capable of making that sort of distinction.
You can disagree with me but if you want to debate I would like you to point to me a similar situation of a certain race and their lineage being treated the way African Americans were for 400 years where it didn't lead to sporadic violence, riots etc. You have the entire planet and all of human history to chose an example from so it shouldn't be that difficult to find an example of course that's if your premise is correct that this type of violence isn't inevitable.
This JA of a potus didn't say anything like that when those jack booted THUGS rolled up in to Michigan capital with guns called them very good people.WORST POTUS EVER.
It sounds like you’ve had a rough experience. I’m sorry for that. I also appreciate your updates from the ground. However, you never answered my question. How do you suggest African American voice our grievances with decades of systemic racism and police brutality?
The fallacy is assuming that a protester = rioter = looter. There are people who want to protest. There are people who are angry and want to destroy. And there are people who see that as an opportunity to get some free stuff. These groups are usually pretty mutually exclusive. The people looting do not care about what happened, they care about getting free stuff. It only takes a few criminals to take advantage, and then others join in. If you don't understand why people loot - well you people who have been stealing for 1000's of years - white black brown men women middle class poor and even the rich sometimes steal. Some people steal from bank account, others use ponzi schemes, others cheat by helping their son-in-law make a buck off the presidency. The real question is why is there a difference between looting a Target and looting America? In any case, looters should go to jail. So should rioters. And so should the President.
I understand your frustration, and you aren't wrong. I think you answered the difference in Selma and Minneapolis indirectly. The difference is leadership. Leadership on OUR side that guides a movement in response to this type of injustice. Instead we are left with complete hopelessness and everyone is left to their own devices to voice their frustration. 99% of the people there probably wanted to peacefully protest. The 1% who crave anarchy and destruction created 99% of the terrible things that are happening to your community during the protests. Leaders need to be on the ground, and working with organizers to create an environment and a set of standards that help pull off a peaceful protest. The womens march was very well orchestrated and had professional leadership components that helped keep millions gathering to remain peaceful, and highly productive. I also think the state has really botched the police and security response. The all or nothing way of policing the situation is pathetic. They obviously have no handle on the situation, and have really been pretty pathetic here in protecting the neighborhood and de-escalate the situation.
