than the Rockets to win. Regardless of the outcome of tonight's game I think it's time for the league to reconsider letting a player be double-teamed without the ball. Allowing it is basically saying you can't beat the other team straight up unless you make it a 4 on 5 game by taking one player out of the picture. Who out there thinks the series would look different if it wasn't allowed? It's also pretty obvious that the postion most likely to be guarded this way is the center position so the extra defender is also around the basket. I know that the common wisdom is that a good team should be able to beat this type of defense so that it won't keep happening. But it somehow strikes me as fundamentally unfair to be able to reduce a player like Yao to more of an observer and defensive player than the skilled player he is. I don't mind a double-team AFTER a player gets the ball, but at least make it illegal to keep him from getting it in the first place. A player like Yao should be celebrated not negated. What would Wilt Chamberlain or Bill Russell's careers looked like if they could have been fronted and denied the ball? If the Rockets win tonight, maybe no one will even care. Or maybe fans might like to discuss this but think now is not the time. So be it. For a pretty good refresher (didn't have time to look in detail) here is an article that I hope gets a discussion going: http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/337437-zone-defense-in-the-nba-is-it-good-for-the-game And I'll apologize ahead of time if I don't respond to any posts directed my way in a timely fashion. My work and schedule pretty much limit me to my lunch time for looking at Clutchfans. But I would be interested in reading other Rocket fans opinions on this topic.
I think not allowing a team to double-team is more of a problem. You're saying that you can't beat the other team without making it a 4 on 5 game. I actually disagree with this because they're using 2 players to shut down your 1 player. Someone must be open somewhere somehow. What it tells me is that there is a weakness in your offense that you can't exploit the fact that they're now using 3 guys to guard your 4. Yes it would be different, but that doesn't mean you don't allow it. Tell your center to be a threat from 16-18 feet and pull him out of the paint then. I think there's something fundamentally wrong with not allowing defenses to double team whenever they want. You are defending your goal - it's a war and double-teaming a player is part of the strategy (whether used before or after he is in possession of the ball). If that's the strategy of the defense, then you counter it with a different offense. If you can't, then you've failed. He should be celebrated because they are forced to design a defense that attempts to neutralize him. I just have a problem with "you can defend him, but uh... you can't do it like this, this, or this..." As long as you're not physically fouling the guy, I can't think of a situation double-teaming a player shouldn't be allowed (now watch somebody come up with a reason... hehe).
i don't know if yao's main problem is being doubled without the ball, it's the fronting by a single player that takes him out. the opposing team usually doesn't put a second player to behind yao, because it would completely destroy their defense.
If a player is being double teamed, then a team has to try to score by passing it to other open teammates. I dont think they should ban this... its the Rockets fault for not being able to capitalize on the double teams people put on Yao
They can keep this rule but if they do then they should be able to keep the hand check rules back. I just don't think it's fair to let guards run wild and untouched while the big men get hammered and murdered. This is not just for Yao but any big man for that matter. The balance between the positions is gone. You sandwich a C or PF and make lots of contact no foul but if you try and sandwich a perimeter player and a whistle everytime. Post game is disappearing because a dominant post game can be neutralized much easier since a post player doesn't require as much motion to get the ball. My only thought is if you're not allowed to put a hand on the ball handler above the FT line why not post yao in the high post?? Well even when he is there and I see his defender with two hands on him nothing gets called. Even still I think that is a play that Rockets could utilize more. Yao doesn't have to score from that position though he could but at least he gets his touches and can facilitate some of the offense. It's important for him to at least touch the ball even on the perimeter if not to get a feel for it instead of fighting and fighting for position and then finally touching the ball and forcing a shot since he might know when when the ball might come back to him again.
Why is ok . . . to COVER A DEFENSIVE WEAKNESS but . . not ok TO COVER A OFFENSIVE WEAKNESS IMO This rule is basically to help out Weak Defenders while you can say the reverse is to help out Weak Offensive players It is a rule that really can only be used in the post [try putting two people on lebron . . .and watch the parade to the Free throw line] Rocket River Why is that covering for weak defensive players sssooooooo important?
How is saying "you're not allowed to defend this guy with more than one player whenever you want" anything but artificially weighting favor toward the offense? You are forcing a style of defense. If they double your big man, burn them because you should have a free man. You can't? Oops. You fail. It's team ball... team defense... beat it with team offense... play basketball! Seriously, series like the Rockets vs. Blazers are what make basketball interesting beyond the great athletes. You counter the opposition's biggest threat by using extra men, leaving yourself vulnerable - now will the opposition be able to exploit the weakness you just created for yourself? This is war at its "funnest".
... except that the extra guy is now another defender in the paint. That clogs things and mostly forces jump shots to counter the double team. Turn Yao into Mehmet Okur? Well, the rules were pretty much the other way for 50 years -- until the Shaq era. Obviously, the rules before the change said precisely that -- "you can't defend him this way". And how DO you think the "greats" like Chamberlain and Russell would have fared under today's rules? The article referenced by the link mentions that everybody understood that the rule was basically because of Shaq. As far as your "this, this and this" reference, I'm only talking about the ONE instance where a player doesn't have the ball yet. Double or triple him after that, but at least he now has ball and can direct it to the open man. A double-team off the ball, especially near the basket, doesn't create near the defensive weakness that it would if a perimeter player were being double-teamed. I don't watch other games much, just the Rockets. Are other centers being fronted regularly?
It's not like they're playing 6 on 5. If the team can't take advantage of the attention Yao is receiving, get better offensive players.
To some extent that is why I asked the question about how many other centers get fronted on a regular basis. If they've solved the problem then it must be the other players and/or the coach. But if Yao is the only one to get fronted constantly (since game 1 of the series) then there's no apples to apples to point to. So, which other centers are getting fronted and how has their team responded? This isn't a facetious question. I don't watch other teams?
So? That's the defense forcing the offense to do something else. Should we not allow traps because it forces the ball out of a star guard's hands? Should we not allow zones because it may mean your team can't man-up across all 5 positions? The defense forces you to make a decision. If the end result is that you turn Yao into Mehmet Okur and you think that's bad, then so be it. You aren't forcing Yao to be anything - you're forcing the offense to adapt. This is the essence of team basketball as opposed to focusing on one player. The question should always be "how do we beat this defense?" If your only reaction in retaliation to what they do is "Yao is rendered worthless", then congratulations to the defense - they did their job. I don't know - but the way I think about how basketball should be played, I don't care if Wilt would be turned into a stiff. I don't enjoy the game when they try to prop individual players up. Maybe Wilt would've developed a jumper. lol. You're playing into the NBA's hands of marketing when you get pissed that a certain player isn't "getting his". As for Shaq, yeah, I tend to think that's true. That doesn't make it any more right to not allow it. Yes, but that's what I'm saying - I don't care if they have the ball or not - it should be allowed. It's a team sport - I'm sorry if your center can be denied the ball and you have a potential 4 on 3 situation you can't take advantage of - the defense should be rewarded for that. If you look closely at the games, you'll see a Luis Scola, when his shots are falling, actually feasting off what they're doing to Yao by nailing FT-line jumpers. Yet all people do is look at Yao's stats. Why? Yao's points are being spread out (to a certain extent). Is this a bad thing? If Yao gets his points, are you willing to give up the points a Scola is putting up as his defender tries to help out with the double-team? You can't have both, you know. It's hard for teams to defend other elite centers (heck, how many of those are there?) by simply fronting. Yao is rooted to the ground. Someone like a Dwight Howard is mobile and can outleap and dunk lobs, for example. Most other centers aren't the focus of the offense, either. By the way, I've seen situations where Yao is in a one-on-one situation and they couldn't get the ball to him on a front. Of course Yao was either getting mugged or we had a player that couldn't make an entry pass to blame in those situations.
I liked the old rules.........just enforce illegal offense where it is one guy iso-ed with 4 on the opposite side of the court. DD
Oh, no. You very likely could under the old rules. Yao has never been a player to hog the ball. If anything, he passes when he shouldn't -- all for the sake of wanting everybody to be involved, because he IS a TEAM player. As I mentioned, I don't mind double even triple-teaming AFTER a player gets the ball. Let that player then demonstrate his court vision and passing ability to find the weakness that has been created. One thing is apparent... we could go back and forth 'til the cows come home and each of us would still prefer the rules we are advocating. It occurred to me in thinking about this, it would be interesting to survey players who played under the old roles (especially the older players) and see how many endorse this sort of defense. For all I know maybe most would agree with you. But I'd be interested to know who does and who doesn't and WHY.
I liked the old rules better, too, except for allowing hand-checking? I remember an interview on "60 Minutes" with Michael Jordan and he was showing Ed Bradley how he could control him. It amounted to him having his hand on Ed Bradley's hip. Not allowed these days. And it was the bane of the Knicks-Rockets series. Kenny Smith got hand-checked a lot in that series. I don't know if I'd like to have that reinstated or not. ?? But I don't think ALL rule changes are good just by decree. I think when the coaches agree to the rule changes (when they happen), they understand it's an experiment. It may work, it may need to be tweaked, and it may need to be reversed.
Sorry. I intended to respond to this, also, but feel somewhat rushed at work. I think the article I linked to made clear that the rule changes were a marketing decision by the NBA to have a more exciting, higher scoring game. It's all marketing.
