problem is, they may want Ward and Redding. Is this too high? Ginter is probably not in the Astros plans anyway. ------------------
I'd trade Ward for Leiter...but they'll want pitching too. What about Elarton and Ward for Leiter?? I'd do that in a heartbeat!! Elarton, Ward & Ginter...I'd do that too! Ward, Ginter & Redding???? NO! I think the upside on Redding is too high. ------------------
If it costs them Redding, no way. If they're not willing to resign Alou, no way. Ward's the only credible OF replacement Houston has right now. Giving him up for a rent-a-player like Leiter when Houston isn't really a contender is insane. I do believe the Astros will make the playoffs. But I don't think they're a championship caliber club this year. Not until Oswalt, Miller, and Redding improve a little. ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
I'd trade Ward and Redding for Rusch and Leiter. ------------------ When you make an assumption, you make an ass out of Uma Thurman.
There is no way in hell I would make this trade. A 35 year old pitcher on the fast downside of his career for a young stud OF/1B about to hit his prime? The Astros need to keep Ward. By this time next year, he will be backing up Bagwell on a regular basis and getting some outfield starts in as well, especially if Drayton refuses to part with any more of his grocer money and does not re-sign Moises Alou, a crime in and of itself. ------------------ "Blues is a Healer" --John Lee Hooker
I'd be happy to see them unload Ward if it meant that the team would be forced to give Alou a new contract. This team would be significantly worse without Moises. Why does everyone assume that the team would have to give up its young pitching? We've got position player prospects, too. If the Mets wanted additional talent for their rent-a-player, the Stros have guys like Ensberg, Truby, and Ginter to offer. Believe me, the Mets need hitting more than they need pitching. ------------------ I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip that I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.
I thought I heard on the news last night the Astros were one of the teams on Leiter's no trade list. Leiter or Rusch are not going to significantly increase our chances of playing in the NLCS or World Series. We couldn't even get past the first round with Johnson. The idea of a rent a player sucks. Having Leiter or Rusch for a couple of months doesn't improve our future. We got the screw job by the Mets in the Hampton trade. Either they return the favor by giving us one pitcher for cheap or I say no trade. ------------------ New Order, Electro Superstars
No way!!! Leiter and Rusch are no better than Elarton. We could get so much more for Ward (a quality pitcher with a future) ------------------ "For there is nothing either good or bad, thinking makes it so." - William Shakespeare (1564-1616), Hamlet
I'm all for getting Leiter, but I still have high hopes for Daryle Ward. Al Leiter has played in two World Series: Florida and NY. We would add a much needed lefty to our staff, and he could be our #1 guy down the stretch. Ward will become a 35 hr/yr guy as soon as we let him start. The man was built for Enron Field. As the deadline winds down, we may be able to acquire him cheap. I'd give up Truby, Ensberg, or Ginter + McKnight,Brian Powell, Elarton, or Kyle Kessell. I would be very hesitant to deal one of our studs like Wilfredo Rodriguez, Carlos Hernandez, Redding, etc. No need to sell the farm for a 35 yr old. ------------------ "Oh No..." -Bill Walton in 97 just before Stockton's buzzer beater
According to ESPN, Leiter cannot veto a trade to the Astros. Again according to ESPN, Leiter is under contract for next season. Well if the idea of a rent-a-player sucks, then the Mets got screwed since they have nothing left from that deal. Meanwhile the Stros still have a good young reliever in Dotel, along with Cruz and Ausmus (who arrived in the Cedeno trade). ------------------ I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip that I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.
No way I make this trade. We need to be patient with our young players. As much as I was in favor of the Randy Johnson trade a few years ago, how good would our rotation be with Freddy Garcia in there? Keep that in mind when you're trading great young talent for short term rental players. ------------------ First the Sopranos and now Eddie Griffin... thank you New Jersey!
No way i make this deal, we are -NOT- one player away from winning a WS. People seem to miss the point all the time and want to concentrate on building a "perrennial playoff team", to me that says "Utah Jazz". ------------------ Anyone need a C/C++/Win32/HTML/PHP/SQL/Java/Perl/x86 coder?
although in the case of their rent-a-player, the "rented" him for an entire season. (and made it to the series). That said, I agree with you. I think we did okay in that trade, all things considered. It's the Everett one that bothers me. [This message has been edited by stringthing (edited July 17, 2001).]
Leiter wouldn't be a rent-a-player...he's still got another year on his contract. Quite different from Randy Johnson. Darryl Ward is a young stud??? huh??? If he's so great, how come he can't break in the lineup?? You wanna know why?? Because he's a DH in the making. He's an average to below average first baseman. He's not a long term solution in the OF. Unless you're willing to say goodbye to Bags, Ward will never get significant playing time on this team. Ward alone won't get this deal done...there are a ton of fat guys who hit for power. But that's all he does!!! Power hitters are a dime a dozen in this league. And if you're trying to get pitching, you have to pay. Particularly for pitching that has been effective in the way Leiter has in his career. Al Leiter is on the downside of his career??? huh??? Leiter has pitched effectively this year, particularly as of late. Yes, he's 35, but he's been logging innings like a younger guy. He shows no signs of slowing down. And he was nails in the playoffs last year for the Mets. Adding a pitcher with some playoff experience on this team would be nice. Someone said Leiter and Rusch aren't better than Elarton...are you kidding??? Elarton is currently one of the worst starters in the NL!! His numbers rival Lima's from last season. He gives up more HR's than anyone in the majors. His ERA is huge. And, in case you haven't been watching, he's getting hit...HARD!!! These aren't seeing-eye hits he's giving up. They're nailing him. Haven -- you think this team isn't a real contender??? seriously??? they have the 2nd best record in the NL after having a very slow May. This team is every bit as good as any in the NL. More than any other year, the NL is wide open. And the difference between this year's team and the team that won the 3 division titles, is that this year we're actually beating the good teams. We fared very well against the D-Backs, the Cubs and the Cards. (although the cards may have been overrated). Back in the division title years, we rarely beat these teams...beating a team like the D-Backs back then (particularly taking 4/6 from them) would be unheard of ------------------
I do believe the Astros will make the playoffs. But I don't think they're a championship caliber club this year. Not until Oswalt, Miller, and Redding improve a little. What makes you think we're not a championship level club? We are a combined 22-5 in games started by our 3 young starters. We are 2 1/2 games out of having the best record in the NL, and since our trades (Powell, Lima) have the best record in the NL. Breaking it down, we have the best offense in the NL, outside of Colorado which is whacked anyway. Our 4-headed bullpen monster of Cruz/Jackson/Dotel/Wagner is better than any in baseball. Our starters have lingering issues, but Oswalt & Miller are a formidable 1-2, Reynolds is a good 3, Redding is a decent 4. Elarton sucks, but can be replaced -- no team has a good #5 starter. Our bullpen can also handle a high load because it consists of 3 ex-starters (Dotel, Mlicki, Villone). Our bench has been as good as any in the NL with Ward, Merced, Vizcaino, Lopez, and Eusebio. I think we have all the pieces in place. The potential post-season competition: * Cubs: Hopefully, we'll pass them up and they won't make the playoffs. Regardless, we'll know how we stack up against them by the end of this week. * Philly: They don't really have any stars of any sort * Atlanta: This would be tough most years, but they have all sorts of pitching and hitting problems right now. The "they'll get better" approach really hasn't worked. * Los Angeles: Just lost two starters, Kevin Brown & Dreifort (both for the season, I believe) * Arizona: This is the best of the bunch, in my mind. However, we recently went 4-2 against them, including facing Shilling & Johnson in 3 of the 6 games. Arizona players have said we are the one team they don't want to face I'm not saying we'll beat all of these guys, but we have as good a chance as any of them, in my opinion. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets. [This message has been edited by shanna (edited July 17, 2001).]
I've heard the Astros offered (P) Greg Miller (who we got in the Everett deal), (LF) Daryle Ward, and (C) Scott Servais for (P) Al Leiter and (U-OF) Timo Perez (they just demoted him, has excellent speed). ------------------ RKMAN Proud believer of the 2001 World Champion Houston Astros.
MadMax: 1. Ward hasn't broken the starting line-up because Berkman and Alou are MVP candidates and Hidalgo is coming off a monster season and has a largish contract. It's *tough* to pinch-hit and maintain a good average. 2. I don't think the Astros are one of the 2 best teams in the league. Realistically, I think that the Mariners are better, and I'd give a slight edge to the Yankees as well. The Braves, Twins, and Dback sare probably about "as good" as Houston. I think the only time you make a trade of a great prospect for an older pitcher is when you think you have a *very good* chance of winning the World Series. I don't think this is the Astros year. Next year, if the Astros resign Alou, they might be ready, with all those young arms ready to contend for 20 games and the Cy Young . ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
Left handed power hitters don't grow on trees. Leiter would be here a year and 2 months then he would be gone like the wind. We have a young nucleus of pitchers with Miller, Redding, and Oswalt. All three of these guys have #1 starter potential. There is no need to burn the farm to win now. We need to be patient with what we have and let the youngsters grow. ------------------ First the Sopranos and now Eddie Griffin... thank you New Jersey!
I like Ward, but he really doesn't have a position in the NL. The Stros have arms in the minors to replace Lieter in a couple of years and they have some nice young OF's to replace Ward. I would trade Ward for Leiter, but that's it. Redding would be a deal breaker. ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
