Lakers and officiating

I don't think anyone's saying the league is completely fixed. At least, I'm not. Even though Sacramento was robbed of Game 6, they still win this series if they make a few free throws in game 7. Skill, talent, teamwork, and other natural factors are still vital, but small market teams have to play to a higher level of perfection than the Lakers to compensate for the officiating. If you take two evenly matched teams, and one of them is the Lakers, if both of them bring their A game the Lakers will win. Can you beat them? Sure. But it takes a whole lot more from your part than it would for them, and that's not close to a level playing field.

Also, I'd hardly call Cuttino Mobley or any NBA player unbiased. They're just going to support the team that has their friends. With all the Euro's on Sacramento, and Chris Webber, who has taken shots at Steve and Cat, it's a whole lot more likely that Cat has more friends on the Lakers.

It never gets that close if Fisher and Shaw aren't allow to continually shove Bibby to the ground in the second half with no call. It also might not get that close if Walker doesn't get to count a three after the buzzer.

Yeah, I hate them. I can't stand people, whether I know them or not, that exploit the fairness and integrity of the game I love. I also can't stand people who take cheap shots and elbow people in the face on a team I like.

Bibby has to act that way. Average Joe sports fan isn't going to remember the crime that was Game 6. He's going to try and pass it off as the Kings choking and the Lakers being clutch, so Bibby has to act nice on camera so he doesn't look like a sore loser to casual fans, which make up about half of the viewing audience. Believe me, if you think what players say in media press conferences are their true feelings, you're terribly mistaken.

 

The funny thing about the conspiracy theory is that, if the league had its way, the Kings would be in the finals. During the Kings/Mavs series, that was promoed as the future of the NBA. The Kings have the most exciting brand of basketball, and they (and the Mavs and Nets fast-break games) are the ones that are drawing fans back in. The two biggest promoted series this playoffs were Kings/Mavs and Kings/Lakers -- not Spurs/Lakers.

The NBA (and many fans) would have *loved* to have a fast-break Kings/Nets championship that would probably be more competitive and entertaining than a Lakers/Nets championship.

 

Maybe so, Major, but you know the NBA was just dying to have a Game 7 between the league's two best teams... and they got it by giving the Lakers 27 free throws in one quarter. It's a rare opportunity: the new breed of the NBA vs. the two-time defending champions. Game 7, champs on the road. That's hard to resist, and the NBA couldn't.

By the way, the majority of the viewing audience still aren't intense fans like you and I. They are average fans looking for something on TV, and Los Angeles and the two superstars is going to get more viewers than Sacramento and team play.

 

So... say there's an athlete, or politician, that you really agree with and support and like him both as a player and a person. If someone else, whether you knew them or didn't, elbowed that person in the chops and tried to physically hurt them, you wouldn't have any hatred for them? If a group of people consistently violated and exploited the system you love and took the meaning out of it, you wouldn't have any anger or hatred for them? If you wouldn't, you're certainly a lot more forgiving than I could ever be.

 

Cat, do you honestly think Kobe was intentionally trying to hurt Bibby? It looked unintentional to me. Now, he probably should have gotten called for a foul, but it would take a really gutsy official to make that call in LA, there's no way you can realistically expect that.

And so Kobe exploits the fairness and integrity of the game, and Vlade is a cornerstone of good sportsmanship and straight up fair play?

Where's that picture with the crying baby on it? Your posts in this forum spew irrational emotion.

Maybe the Kings fans should have started throwing batteries at Shaq to get their money's worth.

 

Of COURSE kobe didn't try to hurt bibby on that play. The only difference between that play and the countless other plays that happen each game in which a player tries to gain separation from a defender checking/ holding him on an inbounds play is that kobe's arm ACCIDENTALLY clocked bibby in the face as he tried to gain that separation. AS prempeh states, a foul 'could' have been called, but i can just as easily see it not being called in that situation. that is NOT an LA call, that is an NBA call. If you want to argue that that call should be made REGARDLESS of the situation or time left in the game, i might be able to buy that. But for you to continually whine about the refs, conspiracies, and kobe's "death wish" for bibby on that play is childish at best.

Were you one of those kids that spit in your hand and slapped hands with the opposing team as you wished them a "good game?" Is it impossible for you to give props to a team for winning, or does there always have to be an excuse, or an out, Cat? No one can ever just win, or outplay you or your team, because your irrationality won't let it. I can't WAIT to see your rationale for the Lakers winning the finals.

"oh, the nets would've WON if byron scott wouldn't have been FEEDING internal info to all his LA friends!" That sounds like a solid bet. Or how about," Oh my GOD! Did you see Horry BREATHING all over luscious harris' face mask?!?!? How in the hell is he supposed to make that desperation full court HEAVE when his mask is all fogged up!?!?!" I only WISH i was exaggerating....

 

I don't get how some of you turned this post in to a post about Cat's personal feelings to a team. Do you not have an argument for what he says? Say what you will about The Kings, they got screwed in Game 6. I'm not talking about some gentle love making. The refs took it to them and didn't even waste time with lubrication.

They were calling fouls that weren't even close. Everyone knew the lakers would get the calls, but those were ATROCIOUS!!! They called a foul on Bibby when he was like a foot away from Kobe. That game was $#it. There really shouldn't have been a Game 7. You can't even argue against that because if it wasn't that bad why is the media making excuses for that game?

I don't hate the lakers, but I don't think the better team won the series. Yes, Sacramento should have won Game 7 if they hit their free throws, but, like I said, there should have been no Game 7.

Plain and simple. The lakers got bailed out.

 

It looked intentional to me. He saw Bibby in his path, and was willing to do anything, no matter what harmed Bibby, to clear him out of the way so that he could shoot the free throws. He didn't care about sportsmanship, the rules, or fair play... he cared about doing whatever it took to clear Bibby out of the way so he could shoot free throws. Was his primary reason to hurt Bibby? No, but it was obvious he didn't care if that was a side effect, and I expect more from a professional.

The entire Lakers team exploits the fairness and integrity of the game by shooting 27 free throws in one quarter. Flopping is a part of basketball. It's something smart players can do, and while it can be frustrating, it's part of the game. Shooting 27 free throws in one quarter... you have to have more than intelligence and talent to do that.

Funny, because for something so irrational, no one has come up with a logical and rational argument as to how the Lakers shot 27 free throws in the final quarter of a close game where they were against elimination. The only crying and irrational posts I see are those trying to defend the NBA and actually justify the Lakers as the better team in this series.

And no, those batteries should be reserved for Dick Bavetta.

Were you one of those kids that spit in your hand and slapped hands with the opposing team as you wished them a "good game?" Is it impossible for you to give props to a team for winning, or does there always have to be an excuse, or an out, Cat? No one can ever just win, or outplay you or your team, because your irrationality won't let it. I can't WAIT to see your rationale for the Lakers winning the finals.

Sure wasn't. In fact, I have several sportsmanship awards from when I was younger for the way I conducted myself while playing sports. I can handle losing, I can handle bad calls. What I can't handle is blatant cheating, and considering the number of times it's happened for the Lakers over the last three years, I'm hesitant to admit something as an official's mistake or a bad call. Oh, and as for the no one can ever just win, or outplay my team quote... do a search to about a year ago today. I was as hyped as could be for the Spurs and Lakers... I had told everyone that the Spurs were going to do it. They were utterly humiliated and outclassed, and I was right here on the BBS to admit that the Lakers were clearly the better team and had outclassed SA. As for the officials, I've complained about the Lakers and officiating in five games out of about 100 this season. 5% isn't an overwhelming percentage.

And as far as saying that my team is lesser... I choose not to do that. You can call it being objective, but I call it a bad way to look at life. To accept not being as good as someone is to accept mediocrity... to be the best, you need to find what you do wrong and look to correct that. That's the way I look at sports. If it frustrates some of you, just disregard my posts... but I prefer to look at what my team does right and wrong, not the other team. I'm an optimist. After one of my teams loses a series, the first thing I do is think ahead to next year and see what can be different. Saying someone is better just isn't the approach I take... I look at it as what I/they did wrong, because it gives you a whole lot more hope for the future.

Oh, and for making excuses for the Finals... I'd love to hear the last series when I didn't have a legitimate complaint about something. Can you really deny the atrocious officiating that happened in game 6? Can you really deny how terrible San Antonio's offensive execution was in the fourth quarter? I see the point you're trying to make, but your examples are way, way offbase.

 

Yeah, it was as bad as Sacramento's offensive execution in overtime of Game 7.

Funny how those damned coincidences happen when there's a game (or series) to be won, and the Lakers' defense tightens up.

 

Huh? Sacramento's offensive execution was fine... Christie had an open shot, Webber had an open shot from the top of the key, and Bibby had another open 18 footer in the last two minutes of the overtime. Those are the shots they had taken all game. The difference wasn't in the Lakers defense, it was in the mental toughness of the two teams. The Lakers had the confidence to make those shots, and the Kings were tight. I give the Lakers credit for having the mental strength and clutch ability to make the shots in the fourth quarter, but the Kings lack of scoring had little to do with the defense. They had about the same looks. They just weren't as mentally tough and battle tested as the Lakers, and it showed.

 

Maybe you could just throw bottles at them for stealing thousands of dollars.

 

The fact that you are so confident that you simply KNOW Kobe's intention and thought process here is good testament to how much you let your hatred of the Lakers and Kobe cloud your judgement. Kobe, no matter how much you dislike him, is a very intelligent player. The guy has no history in the past of elbowing people in the face, or being overly violent for any reason in basketball games. So, with these two things in mind, why in the world would he INTENTIONALLY elbow someone in the face in that particular situation of the game? He did it very early in the inbounds play. There was plenty of time for someone, anyone, to get open to receive the pass and shoot the subsequent FTs. Bibby was up in his face. He was trying to get around him. Kobe wasn't even looking at Bibby when the elbow connected. He was looking at the inbounds man. I don't see how anyone can so blindly just assume this was all intentional whenever there is absolutely no logical reason for it to be done, and the player that did it has no history of doing anything like that. Did Kobe suddenly go crazy and decide to satisfy some sick urge to elbow someone in the face for the first time in his career? I doubt it. I do admit that it is possible that Kobe did this intentionally. I don't pretend to know the guys motives for anything. But to my way of thinking, Kobe being the player that he is and the situation being what it was, I can't imagine Kobe ever doing anything like that intentionally.

EDIT: I realize now the rats' nest I just jostled, and I hereby announce my exit from this thread, as I have much better things to do with my time than argue a pointless debate.

 

I hate going into these kind of debates, since emotions runs high and so many opinions, whether fair or not, can spawn from the same play or stat.

Here's what Rick Majerus said as a LATimes guest writer:

<i>Let's talk about the referees, which I hate doing, but which will certainly be a huge topic of conversation after this one, especially in the northern part of the state.

Every game has been decided by who shoots and converts the most free throws. Friday, the Lakers were 34 for 40 from the line, the Kings 18 for 25.

So, does that mean the officials are playing favorites, or that there is some sort of league conspiracy to get this one to a seventh game, or to get the Lakers into the Finals for bigger TV audiences or whatever?

First of all, swallow and digest one axiom, a basketball forever. This game is impossible to officiate. Now, it is down to whose ox will be gored.

Sure, there were phantom fouls, mystery calls. Always are.

One play that will be hotly discussed is Kobe Bryant running over Mike Bibby at the end of the game. Well, you could make a case for that call both ways. Kobe clearly ran over him, but Bibby also hooked his arm around Bryant before that. So, what you had was probably a good no-call.

This is a fact of life. The referees won't acknowledge it, may not even know it outwardly. But there is a pecking order in the game. The stars get treated better. The same shot the Shaq puts up, Scot Pollard and Samaki Walker have to put up in a very definitive way, or they won't get the same call. For the officials, it's not overt, but probably subliminal.

It's reality, fans, like it or not. And it isn't just in basketball.

If Jack Nicholson is speeding down the road and gets stopped, he is Jack Nicholson and he has a real good chance to not get a ticket. If you are Laker Boy and you are pulled over, you've got yourself a ticket. </i>

I figure the coach of the Utes has better credibility than a joe schmoe fan...

 

Here's a clear example of how hatred blinds.

If we follow your logic, Bibby didn't care anything for sportsmanship, the rules, or fair play because he had his arm wrapped around Kobe on the same play...

Or what of Vlade trying to make the refs call offensive fouls where there were none? A clear example of contempt for sportsmanship, the rules, and fair play.

 

The jist of Majerus' article is that life isn't fair and some players will get calls other people won't get. Hello! That's the essence of the complaint! Saying it happens isn't any justification for it happening.

The Bibby Play: I think the Cat is wrong in saying the foul was malicious. I think Bryant was fighting to get loose and accidentally clocked Bibby. But, it should have been a foul. The refs I think each decided they were going to swallow their whistles -- they didn't want to be accused of giving the game to one team or the other and were willing to let a lot of contact go until the intentional foul comes. Bibby played some aggressive defense to impede Bryant's path and the refs were ready to let it go. Bryant was going to have to do some jostling to get free and the refs would let that go too. However, Bryant accidentally hit Bibby in the face pretty hard in said jostling: an obvious foul and one that should be called every time (in such a case, no one could argue that the refs gave the game to the Kings because it was Bryant who was stupid enough to clock a defender on the inbounds play). But, I don't think the refs were ready to make any calls and by the time they realized what happened, it was too late.

Game 6 Officiating: It was obviously biased. I won't argue a conspiracy theory because I think the reality is less planned and more dynamic than that. But, it should be quite obvious to everyone that the Kings got the short end on that one by the refs for whatever reason the refs may have had to do that. It isn't just the free throw disparity, nor all the 4th quarter free throws. It was fouling Pollard out in the beginning of the 4th quarter and throwing Divac out late and Webber playing with 5 fouls. Divac and Pollard had some legit fouls in there, but they also had plays in which they stood stock still with their arms straight up and were called for the foul anyway. Those calls were the inexcusable part. Of course Shaq will score 30+ points and look like a monster when refs don't let you play defense -- and call fouls even when you don't play defense. Missing calls, like the Bibby non-call, doesn't bother me too much: you can't expect the refs to see everything. But refs calling fouls where there obviously were none is terrible and destroys the product they produce and is an injustice.

I won't blame the Lakers for all this, as Cat has, though I hate them as much as he does. It isn't the stars' fault they get star-treatment. This is the refs' fault and the NBA's fault. So I won't call the Lakers cheaters, but the NBA is a cheater.

 

so then cat, oh great determiner of intentions, can you tell me if kobe bryant was deliberately poisoned? or if it was just an honest mistake that he, the only one out of 1200 people in the hotel, got food poisoning right before game two?

 

Not to jump in on anyone else's argument but the many docters have said that Kobe was more likely suffering from a virus rather than poisoning because usually food poisoning lasts 2-3 not a week, whereas viruses can still have ill effects on any person for more than 4 days.

I dont like the lakers at all but I do find it weird that he was the only one who got it.

 

Maybe you could just explain the relevance between the post you quoted and that statement.

The fact that you are so confident that you simply KNOW Kobe's intention

Can you read? Is the word "look" the same as "know"?

If we follow your logic, Bibby didn't care anything for sportsmanship, the rules, or fair play because he had his arm wrapped around Kobe on the same play...

Bibby wrapped his arm around Kobe after the elbow... I have it on tape.

Or what of Vlade trying to make the refs call offensive fouls where there were none? A clear example of contempt for sportsmanship, the rules, and fair play.

Flops are a part of the game. Shooting 27 free throws in one quarter isn't.