How do you win the hearts and minds of Iraqis if this kind of *accident* keeps happening? What do you have to say to the families and friends of the victims? Collateral damage? Wrong place, wrong time? A bumpy drive to the destination of democracy? Blame the terrorists!? Why did you drive suspiciously? Sorry, but ... http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051121/ts_nm/iraq_baquba_dc US army accidentally killed civilians By Faris al-Mehdawi Mon Nov 21, 8:22 AM ET BAQUBA, Iraq (Reuters) - U.S. troops opened fire on a crowded minivan north of Baghdad on Monday, fearing a car bomb attack, and killed at least three members of the same family, including a child, the U.S. military and survivors said. The U.S. army's 3rd Infantry Division confirmed the incident, saying its troops had opened fire after first trying to wave the minivan to a stop and then firing warning shots. "This is a tragedy," said Major Steve Warren, a spokesman for U.S. forces in Baquba, near where the shooting occurred. "But these tragedies only happen because Zarqawi and his thugs are out there driving around with car bombs," he added, referring to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a militant leader in Iraq. Warren said three people -- two men and a child -- were killed and three were wounded, but the survivors disputed that, saying five members of the family, including two children, were killed and four were wounded. One of the survivors told Reuters the family was traveling from Balad, a town about 80 km (50 miles) north of Baghdad, to the nearby city of Baquba for a funeral when they were shot at by a U.S. patrol as it approached them on the road. "As we tried to move over to one side to let them pass, they opened fire," one survivor said. None of them would give their names but said the head of the family was a Mohammed Kamel. Warren said the incident occurred near a U.S. military forward operating base as vehicles were entering the camp. He said U.S. troops frequently set up impromptu roadblocks in such cases and force all nearby vehicles to come to a halt. The U.S. military took the minivan away immediately after the incident, Iraqi police and the U.S. army said. Reuters television footage showed two dead children in a morgue in Baquba and relatives kissing another dead body on a morgue trolley. One child's head appeared to have been been blown off. "They are all children. They are not terrorists," shouted a relative. "Look at the children," he said as a morgue official carried a small dead child into a refrigeration room. "We felt bullets hitting the car from behind and from in front," said another survivor with blood running from a wound to his head and splattered on his shirt. "Heads were blown off. One child had his hand shot off," he said. Of those wounded, two were women and one was another child, the survivors said. The U.S. military said two men and one woman were among the wounded. U.S. troops are frequently accused by Iraqis of shooting at civilian vehicles at checkpoints and roadblocks. At the same time, U.S. troops are attacked every day by car bombers in civilian vehicles who race at U.S. patrols or roadblocks. Less than two hours after the shooting, a U.S. convoy was attacked by a car bomber in the same area, Warren said. The U.S. military says it does everything it can to ensure it does not fire on civilians, although it has also admitted in the past to accidentally killing civilians at roadblocks. To avoid the possibility of being fired on, most Iraqis pull over to the side of the road when U.S. convoys approach. The convoys generally travel with signs in Arabic telling people to stay back or away and warning them that deadly force will be used if they get too close. It wasn't clear if the U.S. troops involved in Monday's shooting had erected signs telling vehicles to stop.
sad stuff... and then people wonder why people so easily blow themselves up... especially people who are brainwashed just a lil by someone who sympathises with them.
You speak as if war should not be the first option, as if no can be sure what will happen once you release the dogs of war. I'm not sure the administration would agree with such an insightful view point. We have our soldiers in a very difficult situation that they were not trained for. I don't blame them.
I can accept civilian casualties in the heat of battles - unfortunate but unavoidable, which I think most Iraqis can also understand. But stuff like this is simply inexcusable. Think about it, do we have no concern that a few more insurgents might be born when they witnessed or heard this *accident*? I saw one poster put it brilliantly: ultimately, it's not about winning the war, it's about winning the peace. The US military are not doing themselves any favor by acting so paranoidly.
Another liberal post bashing the troops' actions. It's not surprising that you're accused of not supporting them when you ONLY highlight their screw-ups. They're jumpy because of all the idiot suicide bombers and truck/car bombs that are going on over there. Helloooooo????
Unfortunate the soliders are put in these situations... The soliders have no choice though. Like I said in the other thread, "Its either me, or them..." If I am a solider I would shoot first and answer questions later. I would be paranoid cause you never know who is, and who isnt. I dont blame it on the military, I blame it on the cause of which we are here\there. These soliders are kids man, you should see there faces. 19, 20, 21 etc. They are scared to death too. They are caught in a catch 22.....
And another Ultra Right Wing post by yourself. If you can say they are trigger happy because all of the idiot suicide bombers, then you should also be able to say the suicide bombers are here because of the idiot administration made this situation. There were no suicide bombers here before we got here man. Cause and effect. You cannot blame one without the other....
No, there were no suicide bombers in the ME before the US got there. In fact, terrorism never even existed over there.
One of the worst posts I've ever seen. You deliberately changed the subject from Iraq to the whole middle east. We aren't talking about the middle east as a whole. We are talking about Iraq. Your reply was off topic. His remarks were confined to Iraq. Either reply in kind or make up your own conversation, but don't pretend like he was the one being out of line.
Republican political tactic #1: When confronted with the awful truth about President Bush's leadership, immediately change the subject and attack/trash the messenger. Pathetic, even by your low standards, bigtexxx.
Let's not pile on bigtexxx, but I hope he can honestly address my initial question, that is, how do we win hearts and minds of ordinary Iraqis if *accident* like this keeps happening? I mean if we were to follow Svpernaut-esque logic of "eye for eye," would we ever be able to have peace in Iraq?
Another Bushie post bashing a poster and mischaracterizing their intentions. It's not surprising that you're accused of not being able to comprehend the written word when you ONLY highlight the daily Bush talking points. And should still be careful that they don't shoot up a van filled with innocent people, including children. If we are to "win their hearts and minds," we might want to start by not slaughtering the innocent among them. Helloooooo????
There's this documentary series been airing on Discovery Times channel, called "Off to War" I believe. It depicts the lives of these kids being sent off to war and their families back home. Pretty much shows exactly what u851662 is talking about. A lot of those soldiers are undertrained kids who are frightened themselves of being attacked and coming back to their families in body bags or physically injured. You can't really blame them for having quick triggers or being paranoid out there.
He was saying "over here," as in "in Iraq," where he is. Terrorism was virtually unknown in Iraq until we got there.
Please educate yourself. Many of the terrorists are from other places in the ME, so it's a ME issue. I love how I can own 5-6 liberals at once!
I work with an ex sargeant, and he said basically, he hated killing innocents, but he knows he did, at times even before he shot them, he knew they were innocents, but the way sometimes they reacted to what the soldiers said didnt seem normal, and bam their shot... he basically said, id rather kill a civillian than chance myself getting killed i see their point of view, but when your on their soil, id be alittle more careful w/ the trigger, esp since for every innocent you kill over there 10 of his family members are gunna have a grudge against any white soldier.
actually the majority of suicide bombers in iraq, are iraqi civillians, true there are some leaders that are from other parts of the ME, but the vast majority of the suiciders are those whom have been swayed from being normal civillians into suicide bombers/the enemy... i love how i can own someone twice my age!
