Joel Osteen/Lakewood: Good for Christianity or Not?

To be sure, I think you are mostly correct...

But it is a good starting point, isn't it?

 

I understand what you are saying. I believe that there are different ways to administer that medicine(Christianity)... Obviously Christ as the son of God is what we are talking about, but I am not sure that telling people they are going to hell unless they do something is always the best way. I think for some people it is the best way, but not for everyone. I'm not talking specifically about Olsteen since I have no exposure to him other than information gleemed in this thread.

I also believe that we don't have a concrete idea of what hell is. The bible itself has different meanings for what is translated as hell. One of the words is actually a literal place that was burned out and is rubbish, ruin, etc. but existed on earth as a real places. Other times it obviously means something different such as fire and molten lava but has also been translated as hell.

Again it is my belief that it comes down to finding the kingdom of heaven inside of us right where Jesus tells us it is.

I think it all comes down to Jesus message as being that of love. Anyone who has been living without love should repent. If they don't repent of that they are truly doomed. Jesus as the son of God was the ultimate example of love and forgiveness turning his cheek to those who attack him, and asking their forgiveness. Jesus who says if someone sues you for one thing to give them that thing, and even to give more!

I personally believe that it is not un-Christian to believe that Jews and Muslims, and Hindus can all know Jesus, through his message of love and experience heaven.

The bible tells us that those who know love, know God.

It is my belief that Ghandi who was a Hindu experienced heaven. It is my belief that Hitler who claimed to be a Christian and claimed that he was acting on God's behalf did not experience heaven.

Certainly there are many who will say Ghandi couldn't experiene heaven because he didn't appear to be a Christian.

But that presents a catch 22. Is it loving or just(both of which are characteristics of the Christian God.) that Ghandi should suffer for eternity in hell, while Hitler is experiences heaven for ever and ever?

It is neither loving, nor just, and is therefore in itself not aligned with the teachings of Christianity. I can also say that if turned out that I believed I was wrong and that Ghandi is sent to eternal suffering while Hitler is granted eternal bliss, I would denounce Christianity as my faith. I also wouldn't understand how anyone else would be able believe in such a faith. I would also hope that I ended up with Ghandi and not Hitler.

I understand that many don't believe the same way that I do, and that is between them and their master. I won't interfere.

But because of this belief, I don't see anything wrong with Olsteen not saying that Muslims or Jews can't end up in heaven. Whether I am right or wrong in my beliefs I do think that only God can judge the fate of a soul.

And if it is like medicine to a diseased person there are different ways to administer that medicine. Some people may prefer an injection because of a weak stomach while others want a capsule because they don't like needles and their stomachs aren't upset when taking capsulated medicine.

I don't know enough about the rest of Olsteen's message to know for sure what it is lacking and not lacking. I will say that if it is centered around a 'me me me me me' type of philosophy and material goods, then I'm not feeling it.

 

True,

and I like your attitude. It is about Christ's love.

I don't believe in beating people over the head with a Bible or 'condemning' everyone to Hell.

I am a simple Pastor, I read the Bible and I believe it.

 

Yeah,

I guess preaching about positive thinking is bad, huh?


SHEESH !

DD

 

Interesting take but just on a techinical point I don't believe Christianity was a big part of Hitler's belief system. I certainly don't think he claimed to be acting on a Christian God's behalf. Nazism was more of a mismatch of ancient Roman and Norse symbology wrapped together by quasi-Nietzchean philosophy.

As far as whether Ghandi is or should be going to Heaven I don't think Ghandi thought or believed he was going to Heaven and probably would've categorically denied he was motivated by the thought of going to Heaven. While I can understand how good meaning Christians are very troubled by the idea that virtuous non-Christians don't get to go to Heaven while even vile Christians do but I think for many non-Christians that's not a big concern. If someone who wasn't a Christian was concerned about getting into the Christian concept of Heaven then IMO they should become a Christian.

On a side note I think Dante addressed this issue by setting aside part of the Inferno where virtuous Pagans, who were unfortunately born before Jesus or lived somewhere where they couldn't hear his message, stayed. It was still Hell but a very nice part of Hell where Socrates and Cicero could hang out and discuss philosophy in a comfort for all eternity.

 

Not bad in and of itself but to what end? If positive thinking is primarily meant to help improve one materially I'm not sure how that can be considered to be advancing spiritually.

 

And since the day I left Milwaukee!

Lynchburg, we parted old friends!

Been making the bars lots of big money...

Helping white people dance! (including me)

I got you in trouble in high school

College, now THAT was a ball...

And some of the best times, you'll never remember with me...........

ALCOHOL!!!!!

Cheers!

 

if this gets people to behave better
it is good for society
and a good society is good for Christians

Rocket River

 

Believe me I don't think Christian beliefs were a big part of his actions either, but in Mein Kampf he definitely talks about doing God's work. He said that was what he believed in.

I'm not even sure about going to heaven, or just experiencing heaven. I don't know exactly what heaven is, but that the kingdom of God is within us. I believe that Ghandi experienced that or would have, whether it was actually called heaven or not.

I also understand about not being motivated by heaven, and I don't see that as being un-Christian or Christian, but could be either. I tend just think it is a by product and certainly a wonderful thing. But I don't believe a person has to be motivated by it to experience.

But anyway a lot of this is just philisophical talk and not practical stuff since nobody knows for sure. I was just mentioning this thought going on the assumption that there is one definite way that things happen. If that was the case a person who wasn't motivated by heaven or hell could certainly experience them either way.

 

Sarcasm chance...sarcasm.

D

 

Well....I've been a holdout to these Christianity threads long enough.

First, I'll answer the question. Is Osteen good for Christianity? I certainly believe he is. I myself listen to him infrequently, maybe once or twice a month. But when I do, I often feel very uplifted and optimistic. It motivates me to improve life in certain areas.

He has spoken of being rewarded by God, which has included material things. But he also speaks of using that material wealth to give back to God, the church and the community. That certainly has not been the bulk of his messages when I have listened to him though.

He has given some great bible-based teachings on family, marriage, relationships, parenting, etc. All of which I have viewed as very helpful. I can imagine that many have benefitted from Osteen's sermons.

All of that being said, Lakewood Church could not be my mainstay, but it is a nice fill-in when I am at home flipping through the channels.

I attend a non-denominational church in Plano, TX. 3 years ago, I went on a "church search." I was raised Catholic, and never really seemed to get the true message of faith that I was searching for. That turned me off to any church or relationship with God for some time. I was just living...and lost. So as I ran through church after church, denomination after denomination, I found myself at Fellowship Bible Church North in Plano. Within minutes, I said to myself, "This is the one." I just knew.

Now I look back, and without going into too much detail, I can clearly see how God worked in my life......got me back on track, and got me to where I needed to be. For now. I've left out a lot of details here, and there has been some pretty crazy events that have led me to where I am. My personal story of how I came to know Jesus is nothing short of miraculous. If you're interested, email me or something. I'd be happy to share.

I think many Christians get caught up in the "religion" part of Christianity, and have a tendency to neglect the relationship. I also think that it is possible to have a deep, personal relationship with Jesus Christ in a huge church like Lakewood (I joke and call some of those churches 'Six Flags over Jesus'). Likewise, I think it can be accomplished in a very small church with a close knit community. But remember, a growing church is supposed to be a good thing. So just because it's big doesn't make it corrupt or not good for Christianity. Sure, there are examples of corruption in the church on many levels.

To sum up, I know where my bread it buttered, so to speak. I know where I belong and where I fit in....and that's where I will be until God reveals the next step in my plan. What's right for me is not going to be right for another. I respect that and have nothing against Lakewood, or any other large church that is bringing people to God.

 

great post