James Harden is gonna get screwed over again in MVP voting (2019 edition)

My point was that if Giannis was on a team that was a third seed, well behind the number 1 seed in its conference, then Harden could very well be the front-runner right now despite his team only being on pace for 47 wins.

Harden's season this year is actually pretty comparable to what Westbrook did a few seasons ago. In both cases, the stats were like video-game numbers, albeit probably inflated due to the way their respective teams play. Highest usage seasons ever. Westbrook was perceived as single-handedly carrying that team, like Harden this year. Westbrook did something not really seen since the mythic ages of the early 60s (averaging a triple double). Same as Harden (as far as the streak is concerned).

 

No you can't, because people aren't as impressed with scoring streaks as they are with triple doubles. People are arguably more impressed with Westbrook getting a trip dub in his consecutive games streak this season than they are with Harden's scoring streak.

 

Really? Then why hasn’t Westbrook won the MVP three years in a row? And why isn’t he even in the conversation this year with a better record and averaging a triple double?

 

Kobe and MJ scored 35+ points in the last 30 years. Neither won the MVP. Harden is a little more efficient.

 

Because now that he's done it already it doesn't have the same shock effect as when he was the first to do it since Robertson.

 

I don't care about MVP. We should be more concerned about winning championships.

 

I care about both. You can do that, btw as a fan of James Harden and the Houston Rockets.

 

But you just said the triple double streak was more impressive than the scoring streak? But now nobody cares and PG is getting more run at MVP? You just proved my point. It’s a narrative award now. Harden IS the first one to do it since Wilt/MJ while being 5th in the west.
It’s about what the media wants to push. We all know Westbrook’s MVP was a consolation prize for KD leaving so all the usual standards for MVP got thrown out the window. Now we have the same situation with Harden at a higher level of efficiency while having statistically the greatest offensive season ever.

 

And it is. It not leading to a MVP now doesn't equate to it not being more impressive to most.

I wouldn't say no one cares. Westbrook broke that record the same night Harden broke the scoring one and both got plenty of run, with Russ coming out on top of which was more impressive.

And that narrative won't get pushed to the degree of someone avg a trip dub for the first time since Robertson.

 

That’s all opinion based wich we could argue for days. The fact that it’s not on the MVP radar is what I question.


[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't say no one cares. Westbrook broke that record the same night Harden broke the scoring one and both got plenty of run, with Russ coming out on top of which was more impressive.[/QUOTE]

I just can’t see how the triple double thing automatically gets you an MVP and now it doesn’t. If it’s really perceived as more impressive. I think many basketball people actually saw how fabricated the rebounding numbers were and took that into account.

[/QUOTE]And that narrative won't get pushed to the degree of someone avg a trip dub for the first time since Robertson.[/QUOTE]

But it has, and that’s the reason Harden is in the conversation. Whether he wins another MVP is up to the media but to say Westbrook’s accomplishment were more deserving is just not true.

 

I think it's more of the fact that people realise the triple double isn't as glamorous as it once was.

 

The comparison is there, but I hate this comparison since Harden was forced to take over while Westbrook neutered his very real basketball players in Oladipo, Adams and Sabonis into mediocrity.

Harden is pulling players like Faried, who is having a career year after languishing on the bench in Brooklyn, Rivers who was released by Phoenix, and House who no one thought was good, into the playoff race. Not to mention the crazy amounts of injuries sometimes playing without his top 3 best players.

 

Man at this point all I care about is this team getting fully healthy and making a late season push. This season has been such a gut punch. First there was definitely a hangover from last season + all the new players out the gate which lead to a horrible start and had the Rockets in a tough spot. Then once things started to settle a bit and momentum and cohesion started to build injuries one after another. While Denver has lost the most games to injury so far this year the Rockets do have one of the highest lost shares at 6.1 games according to ManGamesLost.com




Now with GS I really don't count them because they "lost" Boogie for the first part of the season. And Toronto is interesting but how much of that can be contributed to them purposefully sitting out Kawhi for "load management" Losing JV earlier in the season did impact them though. Then you have NO with their guys being not healthy and Houston at 6.1 games, and thats with the additions of Faried and Rivers (I would imagine 6.1 would be higher if the Rockets were not able to sign them)

6.1 games is beyond significant based on their metric. You can argue with much better health that number could be much higher due to consistent rotations and added chemistry.

Harden has had a memorable season - something we may never see in a real long time. Unfortunately it was primarily due to injuries to the team. I would rather have him at a more "normal" 30ppg if it mean Gordon, Paul and Capela missed a total of 10 games combined instead of the 40 combined over this recent stretch.

It will be interesting to see how history will treat Harden though. He arguably could have been a 3 time straight winner of the MVP award which would put in him rare company with just Larry Bird with 3 straight MVPs and in the small company of players with 3 MVPs. (Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Moses, Bird, Magic, Jordan, LeBron)

 

I feel like if Russ, or Lebron or Steph were having this kind of season then the MVP wouldn't be a discussion.

Harden's putting up numbers that have us looking up Wilt's stats on bball reference because there is no other viable comparison in history, and his season has been BETTER from an efficiency perspective.

All while being solid defensively (ELITE in some areas), and carrying a broken team from 14th to 5th in the conference.

This is a unanimous MVP for any other player.

 

Who is your MVP? (Harden, Giannis or Paul George?)

Broussard: I have those 3 as my top 3 but in a different order. I'm going Giannis. I was with Harden up until a few weeks ago. Giannis' numbers are out of this world. He's off the charts statistically & gets it done down the stretch. He's 3rd in 4th quarter scoring. He plays defense unlike James Harden. He's 15th in real plus/minus on the defensive end. He uses that length & athleticism to play both ends of the floor. Milwaukee is only team in top 5 in O/D efficiency. Milwaukee has best record. Best road record. Best point differential. Giannis has been spectacular in every way.

When I look at Harden, I was with him up until a few weeks ago while they were winning. They were winning at an impressive rate but they've cooled off significantly. They're 11-9 in last 20 and since Chris Paul has come back, they're 4-4. Reason is they're still playing like all Harden all the time. They're making CP3 a role player. I know he's not quite what he used to be but he's still a good player. They need to get more in line with how they played last year instead of Harden doing everything. It's starting to catch up with them & they won't win at a high level if they play this one-man band basketball. I'm going with Giannis. Paul George has another star on his team. Typically, right or wrong, that's worked against guys. Giannis does not have another star next to him. He's number one for me.

Skip: As usual, some decent basketball points. ... I'm driving the Paul George bandwagon towards MVP. I believe he'll catch James & Giannis and win DPOY as well as MVP. What he is doing in spite of Westbrook is extraordinary. He's igniting one of the best defenses in basketball. He leads the league in steals & so many other categories that add up to this team being dramatically improved on the defensive end. On the offensive end, the 3pt shot is so much more dramatic. It has so much more impact. Paul averages 10 attempts a game. He's made 41%. I watch OKC every night. I sit back in awe of his late game clutch 3pt shooting. If you watch, it's like he swishes every one of them.

He's taking over the team & has won the trust of Westbrook that obviously Durant wasn't able to. Paul George is carrying Russell Westbrook. Westbrook has been atrocious shooting the ball. It's like you have to overcome it on a nightly basis. Since January 19, OKC is tied with Milwaukee for the best record in basketball since then & OKC is the #1 scoring team since Jan. 19 because of Paul George. He has turned that team into his team. He's won Russ' trust, the coaches trust, has taken over OKC. He loves OKC. He's comfortable playing alongside Russ. Russ is playing alongside Paul George. Over the last 25 games, people will see the light. Paul George has arrived as a bonafide superstar.

Broussard: George has been great. I would disagree on this point: Westbrook is the engine. George has been great. What's the argument against Giannis? Has he been better than Giannis?

Skip: He has. Giannis, it's his team. He's the solo star. Every night, he gets to do whatever he wants.

Broussard: You've convinced me George is number two. I'll move him ahead of Harden. Giannis is still number one.

 

[Brian Windhorst] Giannis or Harden? The MVP question that's dividing the NBA

 

Giannis over Harden is not dumb

George over Harden is very dumb

 

Unless the Rockets win 80% of their games the rest of the way I doubt Harden wins it again this year. Sure James' stats are historical but the Rockets regressed from a 65 win team last season and are not among the top five teams of the league. Giannis is having a great season and Milwaukee is probably going to win the East. I don't have a problem with Antetokounmpo winning the MVP this year.

 

Prediction: This win against the Warriors will damage Harden's MVP chances more than any loss.