Jalen Rose & Paul Pierce on NBA MVP: Giannis Antetokounmpo or James Harden?

You think being a Rockets fan should give one extra confidence that voters would vote Harden? I don’t see why.

 

Rose has a vote

 

Wilt, Arrtis Gilmore, Charles Barkley, Dwight Howard, Shaq. Probably Yao in stretches.

Russ, Harden, Oscar, Wilt

You can go wrong because Harden's season is historic in a way that others are not.

You have to break out the snowflakes fir Giannis and add all sorts of qualifiers to make him seem unique.

Harden this year speaks for himself.

You can go wrong, and if you vote for Giannis, you did go wrong.

 

You're putting it that way? Since we see Harden play probably more than anyone else outside of the Rockets organization, yes.

 

its wrong to call it wrong... its BLASPHEMOUS!

 

Wrong on all counts. But I’ll give you “Yao in stretches” ... lol.

 

I’m all for making a case as strong as one can... but surely you knew Dwight Howard never came close to Giannis scoring output this season and that’s Yao in stretches (or anyone in stretches) is a pretty bad argument???

 

Well you didn't specify so I used EFG%. Just guessing, but Giannis this year is like 60th of all time or something. It's very good!

It's actually a rather rare lack of specificity from you so I was a bit taken aback, honestly you're just citing "points" "rebounds" "as efficiently" - are we talking per minute? Average? Pace adjusted? Rebound rate?

if you have some real metric throw it out man. Are you embarrassed to do so because it's going to sound very manipulated?

 

Scoring efficiency is typically understood to mean true shooting percentage, which measures points scored per scoring attempt. The same stat referred to often on here (by me and others) to point out how impressive Harden’s scoring output has been this year. Is that too obscure for you?

 

I do know TSP. Doesn't Rudy Gobert lead the league in this?

Anyway mid career Artis Gilmore went six straight seasons posting a higher mark than Giannis this year while averaging 10+ boards.

 

He’s near the top. Just as he is in FG% and eFG%.

 

Who else is near the top?

You don't have to answer.

This illustrates my point perfectly. If you dredge up some smorgasbord of metrics that require a lot of clarification you can argue about Giannis uniqueness.

But this is a parlor trick. With enough caveats we are all special

36 ppg speaks for itself.

This is all very simple. Arguing that Giannis "is worthy" or "has done enough" tacitly concedes he has not done more than Harden.

Because he has not.

 

The media in general is dumb. Men, women whatever. I do see a trend with most women in the sports media going the safer route of going along with the media approved narrative. Not all women, but it's a trend. I can bet you won't see many women in the sports media challenging Jordan's place as the GOAT, despite never having watched the man play.

 

LOL. You’re really trying to squirm your way out of this one. The players at the top are the same players at the top of that other super obscure metric known as “field goal percentage”.

36 ppg— which has already been done by Jordan and Wilt and Elgin. You can only make it unprecedented by tacking on TS% or looking at his scoring output per possession. Uh oh, those same caveats.

No need to keep squirming. I’ll let you off the hook. You won the argument with “Yao in stretches”.

 

Hahaha, thank you for this, Durvasa McLean

"already been done by Jordan and Wilt and Elgin "

Is the heart and soul of why it is unconscionable to not vote for Harden. A more self-owning statement could not be written.

 

Player A
652 True shooting percentage
20.7 rebound rating

Player B
642 TSP
19.4 rebound rating

Spoiler

player A is 2007 David Lee. B is Giannis

 

Well, that sure sounds impressive. Only seven times an NBA player has averaged more than 36 ppg before this year, by those three mythic figures. Unfortunately for your argument, the only time it resulted in an MVP was the very first time it was done way back in 1960. When Jordan did it in his third season, he wasn’t even considered the best player in the game (and, in fact, he wasn’t). But now it’s all of a sudden this special threshold that warrants not just strong MVP consideration, but unanimous MVP honors? Haha — no.

Harden’s MVP case this year cannot be simply summed up by his PPG average. That, on its own, doesn’t get you very far if history is any indication. To actually build his case, you have to look at efficiency and team success as well. Of course, I understand why you want to dismiss the importance of those factors. It complicates the discussion.

 

Giannis vs Harden debate shouldn’t even be a discussion. Giannis is having a typical MVP season at best but Harden is having a transcending season, it’s not even about PPG. There shouldn’t be any reason besides Harden elevating his game beyond anyone’s expectation to lead a team that shouldn’t have any business being in conversation as top 4 seed this year in a loaded conference.

Harden has been close to unstoppable as it gets in the regular season. Defenses were consistently gearing to stop Harden in any way imaginable because there was no one on the team close to beating opponents .

What Harden did this year while also being in conversation for 2nd seed with all the injuries and players that played throughout the year in a loaded conference top to bottom, is historic and unimaginable. It seems like any player in a position as Harden and do the things he had to do while producing winnable results would win them unanimous MVP. If Curry could win unanimous MVP in a season, Harden should easily have it this year. Only reason is the bias on Harden and it’s so damn obvious by the media.

This isn’t even a debate. If any player did this, I would keep my stance of them being MVP.

 

Jordan wasn’t considered MVP because he didn’t translate PPG to wins. Bulls were an 8th seed without a winning record. Harden’s PPG and wins go hand in hand this year. He had to do it for us to win.