O’Neal then gave his top 10, adding more fodder to the conversation by giving a first and second team. He said his first team, in no particular order, was Magic Johnson, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, LeBron James and then [expletive] me.” “That ain’t no disrespect to Malone, [Charles] Barkley and Kareem,” O’Neal said. “Hey, that’s my list. Understand what I’m saying?” Source: Broderick Turner @ Los Angeles Times
Phil Jackson wanted to win, and regardless of the motion style Triangle offense, it mostly resorted back to Jordan getting off something in iso/post up, it is a coaches dream where players all touch the ball each possession because of the energy and unity it shows, but when the chips are down, they went to Jordan, and also Pippen chipped in with timely putbacks/shots, including others like Paxson/Kerr/Kukoc etc Jackson coached two of the biggest iso/scorer/volume shooters in NBA history, so i don't see how he would not be able to cater to a player who wanted to make the right play/pass but can also do his own volume shooting scoring if necessary as he did against Pistons in 07' ECF If Lebron cared about equal opportunity offense he would have never left Cleveland where he was getting 20+ shots easily per game to going to a big 3 in Miami and getting around 16 shots per game well since it is the Lebron system it means he became the engine of that franchise so he took 3 different teams to Finals as the man, which is great for career resume, he took Cleveland to half of those Finals trips, which if the Dream would have taken the Rockets to two more Finals they would have been very estatic/grateful for those 5 Finals appearances regardless of the outcome
LeBron would play the role of Pippen or Kukoc in the real triangle. LeBron and Pip duo may be hit and miss like Bron and Wade, so maybe they get some titles assuming this is Lebron who plays actual defense, but they also very likely lose ones they won with Mike. Truth is in LA it was feed Shaq in an iso post up and let Kobe iso off single converge when Shaq was doubled. Shooters around. Fox and Horry would usually play the Pip role. I could see Lebron fitting more to into that role where he can get his along with Shaq(obviously prime Shaq with no opposition at his position is not difficult to imagine other peak stars winning alongside that). In the Chicago triangle, if Pip has to play the same robin role to LeBron, it won't work primarily because Lebron is not an off ball player. LeBron is a high volume shooter too. Let's not act like he only takes 10 shots a game. He wants his 20 to 22 a game if the only other option is Pippen taking his 16 with no other scorers. Bron needs to attack downhill from a running start and dominate in transition. Bron and Pip would wreck in transition for sure, but the triangle in Chicago was dominant b/c of Mikes versatile scoring dominance, especially his off ball activity. The real triangle in Chicago was the inspiration for Steve Kerr to unlock Steph with his off ball movement(yes and some Pop motion O as well). This is something that goes completely forgotten and unnoticed when people speak of MJ being a ball hog or selfish b/c of all the selfish players ever Mike was the only one who moved off ball like Bird, Reggie, Ray, Rip and Steph and Klay today. Even on ball, Mike didn't pound the ball, he made fast decisions and rarely wasted dribbles. He had all of this pre Phil, dating back to UNC or his 37,35ppg seasons. It's literally all there for anyone to see in any game, but no one pays attention to that aspect Mike brought, but here's a lil compilation reminder
That said above, i do think Lebron would respect and follow Jordan as the alpha role model and play the Pippen robin role and he'd also do it for Steph and both would yield tons of championships. That also said, i do believe LeBron would be sour and bitter like Pippen later on in life and start claiming himself as the better player and all that trash Pippen been talking. Bron cut from the same cloth as Pip.
Young Bron played good single and team D when focused and has been in DPOY convo during Heat stint If Bron and Pipp went to four Finals in four seasons then that is clearly a hit on the reason they play is to at least reach the Finals, the outcome is another story During both 3 peats other Bulls made big plays/shots during that run, just like having the best rebounder and top defenders in Rodman.... But Jordan was the superstar/scoring machine/alpha leader( his role as a player) Jordan isolated a lot in the Triangle, the triangle was to build trust with his mates, and Jordan was a willing passer as he had stretch of games where he avg 10+ dimes per game and he also came from the Dean Smith of team ball/passing so those 3 yrs at UNC gave him the foundation to play in a passing system And I mention how Bron got his 20+ volume shots with Cavs, just as I mentioned he adapted with Bosh n Wade where his attempts went down to like 16 per game but his efficiency spiked to career highs He would have adjusted well with Pippen in that Triangle, plus Pipp would have scored more like he did in 94' season Bron could be used as a combo of how Jordan/Kobe and Shaq were used in it, that's a good prob to have if you are a coach Jordan was a self proclaimed ball hog, and then the media labeled him that until he won title Nothing wrong with being a ball hog if you are a multi scoring champ, Jordan avg like 28ppg rookie yr, he has always been a volume shot taker/maker Kerr and others use variations of the Triangle, just like Dirk and Duncan got their signature shot from Wilt Nothing new is under the sun, just recycled
LeBron's attempts didn't go down to 16 on Miami, more like 19 and 18. It seems like an insignificant number to quibble over, but he sacrifices 20% of his shots in one scenario and, in the other, around 6 or 7%. The player who sacrificed for the Heat was Bosh. Similar to how the player who sacrificed for the Cavs superteam was Love. Usage rates for LeBron were more or less similar throughout his career as well. I don't see him playing on any offense like the triangle or another motion offense. He couldn't play the Jordan role because he would want the ball in his hands a lot more, and he couldn't play the Pippen role because he'd want to score a lot more. I'm positive that he is disgusted with those types of offenses in his heart of hearts.
I was guessing off top of head just as I was guessing with his 20+ attempts with Cavs, so if he shot 23x per game with Cavs than dropping to 18 would sound about right, thats a lot less shots per game, but it was also because he teamed up with two others who were number one options prior Bosh had to sacrifice the most because Bron/Wade were MVP candidates and he was the third wheel, as Bron was two time winner, nothing wrong with that Usage rate is usually for the best players Based on his career overall stats per game he was combo of Jordan/Pippen And who cares about the triangle, Jackson would have figured out how to use a willing passer and scorer HOF'er Bron would let Wade/Irving cook, its why he went to 8 straight Finals because he usually had another dominant scorer who could take over, plus the NBA wanted him in Finals being he is a headliner and he triggers a lot of hate from others and fanatics over prop him up Pretty sure he is not losing any sleep thinking about playing in a triangle offense when he has his own system, though its running on E nowadays, father time
Lebron stayed in Cleveland for like 9 yrs what do you mean loyalty? That's only 3 yrs less than MJ's entire prime and you think he wasn't loyal? Pretty sure Lebron played more years in Cleveland than MJ in Chicago lmao when it comes to loyalty Lebron has been more loyal than Mr. MLB. You are right staying hungry is the toughest thing, that's why Lebron went out of his comfort zone going to a new team in a new situation in a new environment because he was hungry for success. He could have stayed in Cleveland with a dumb GM who keeps giving him crap like old Shaq, Sideshow Bob, Jason Kapono...I mean the year after Lebron left Cleveland was perennially in the top 4 lotto that's how bad they were. When MJ left Bulls reached ECF that's how stacked his team was. MJ had the time of his life in Chicago because Krause gave him everything he needed. He got his HOF sidekick, stacked team, HOF coach etc Maybe that's why he is such a horrible GM he got used to Krause doing everything for him. Lebron is the one who needed to reinvent himself to win rings, MJ played the same way for every ring cuz he just ran it back, and when the team sucked he retired to play baseball or golf or w/e. I agree with your bolded statement but that doesn't apply to MJ since MJ retired 3x and even played for Wizards. You can't call a guy who keeps retiring hungry lol wtf. MJ even said on his first retirement he achieved everything he wanted he clearly lost his competitive fire unlike say Lebron or Kobe who just keeps grinding year after year. It applies to Hakeem but as we can see in the NBA loyalty doesn't matter much I don't think Hakeem is even in the top 5.
He did shoot 23 shots per game once in his third season. In the two seasons before joining the Heat, he shot 19.9 and 20.1 shots per game. He sacrificed around a shot a game when he joined the Heat and shot 18.8. Meaning he hardly sacrificed despite joining a super team. Jackson sees the way LeBron plays and knows that it goes against the spirit of the game. It really isn't basketball at all. It's all for one or none for all basketball. You can say forget about the triangle, but if he had to allow LeBron to play the way he plays, he would have quit in disgust.
Either way he sacrificed because he could have still played the same way with Wade/Bosh and shot the same 20 or 23 or 30 shots Jordan was criticized for being a scoring ball hog and some pre title thought you can't win big like that It is still basketball, they just dominate it in their own way Bron is always assist hunting, you don't avg the apg at his position if you are not doing that, and most of the actual PG assist leaders dominate the ball Bron just happens to score at elite level as well, so he does both which calls for him to be even more ball dominant, and pretty sure Jackson likes reaching Finals more so than forcing a system down your throat, as he learned being the Knicks GM and got disgusted and quit, great wise coaches adapt to their talent and build around that Bron would be the Shaq version in the infamous triangle, but able to work both in/out and kick it to shooters or let the other star cook and cut and do other stuff within the flow of that portion
Not saying this video is the end of all be, but I took it as the name Triangle offense was for show/PR and it was basically the ''Get Jordan The Ball And Get The Hell Out Of The Way System'' even under Phil / Tex W triangle Jordan still took 23 to 26 shots per game, so I don't know how that wound affect how Jackson would coach Lebron
Does Jackson dying with the triangle in New York make my point? He didn't change, no matter how horrible the Knicks were. I forgot about that. It was an embarrassing mess. I think Jackson likes winning championships more than just reaching the Finals. Even though Jackson coached Jordan, he'd still start a team with Bill Russell. Designing an offense around a player to exploit his elite scoring and passing could accomplish a lot, but it won't win a lot. He saw Wilt. He knows that that ain't basketball. LeBron playing the Shaq role would be very interesting. Jackson was a master manipulator. Maybe he could have made LeBron buy into that role. Jordan breaking the triangle was common. But even in the video with many clear-outs, Jordan scored a lot out of the triangle. Those no-to-one-dribble turnarounds and the three-to-four dribble moves in traffic were out of the triangle. At the end of the day, offenses like the triangle do rely on individual brilliance to win big. We saw it with the Lakers, in San Antonio and, most recently, with Golden State. Durant even talked about it. However, players like Durant could not see that a team playing that way made the team stronger. Jordan saw that and appreciated it. Curry sees it. Even a big donkey like Draymond sees it. I believe Shaq saw it, and Kobe eventually saw it when he experienced life without Jackson and Shaq. I don't think LeBron sees it.
Jackson didn't change in New York because he was living on his past resume because regardless of any system the dominant player(s) will dictate that 80%+ of the time Well you have to reach a Finals or Super Bowl/World Series etc first to even think about wining it all, so I would imagine Jackson would take Bron after Russell since they both went to bunch of Finals, Russell just won more All players need a co-star or two, that's the reason why Wilt lost and everybody else did as well to superstacked Celtics But as soon as Wilt got a all star caliber player or two, they mopped the Celtics in 5, and would have done it again if it wasn't for injuries following yr Wilt was taking that team to 6/7 games each time out, so something must have been working doing that by himself, but its a team game .......but a big time scorer is vital to winning titles Jackson taking Russell doesn't change that, its just his personal choice, not a universal one because pretty sure a lot of others who are fans&players would pick Jordan or Wilt to start their team or Jabbar etc Bron could play the Shaq and perimeter role, because of the attention he would draw and willing to pass or shoot from perimeter They ran the Jordan offense and called it the triangle for PR/team purpose, especially based on the volume of shots Jordan took in that offense Those no or one dribble turnarounds or 4 dribble was based on Jordan brilliance and getting him the ball and get out the way, it was the Jordan Offense masked as the Triangle Thing is you mention how Kobe/Jordan learned to appreciate a passing offense when Bron was compared as being Magic/Kidd-like with his court vision passing day one rookie yr So how would that not work? If Jordan/Kobe/Shaq would frequently break the triangle, why wouldn't Jackson let Bron do it? Shaq and Jordan went to 12 Finals combined, Bron at 10 Pretty sure Jackson would learn to appreciate coaching another 1st ballot HOFer that gave him a great chance to reach Finals, its his claim to fame
Real Triangle adherents simply refer to it as Triangle, not 'the" Triangle. This is a actually true btw. Phil, Tex etc all did that
