Is it ok to propagate that women are inferior/wicked?

You keep telling me I'm indoctrinated, could you elaborate please, cause I don't quite see where you're coming from.

 

- I don't know the penalty for not covering up, but I can't imagine it's anything serious. It only applies in a couple of countries anyway. I know that in Iran, if you're "coverage" is not proper, yo uwill be warned to fix it or go back home.

- Stoning for adultery, however, again, only a handful of countries apply it, and only a few countris go through with it. Even in Saudi, such cases are almost unheard of. Sometimes they go through with it to set an example, but that's all. In NIgeria, however, it's quite common.

- I'm guessing the same thing, however, a man can marry 4 women. In Iran, you can actually have a "temp" marriage, which last a very short period of time, even a day sometimes... I don't see why a man would cheat.

- No, women aren't allowed to request a divorce. It's being discussed in the Arab world, but I don't think Islam allows it.

- Don't know about juries or testifying.

- Polygamy is multiple marriages I think, so yeah, 4 women as long as they all know and none hold jealousy in their hearts. So basically, it's pretty much impossible.. If you want to hear more about WHY the rule exists anyway, I'll tell you what the main thoery is..

- Muslim women are not allowed to marry non-muslims, but muslim men are allowed to marry non-muslim women provided they tried to persuade the woman first.

- I think they are... I mean, there are visa issues and stuff, just like the rest of the world.. But as far as I know you don't need it.. However, I'm not married and haven't really dealt with this..

- I know next to nothing about female circumsicion.

- See previous.

- According to Islam, it's the one God. The Bible is what Allah descended before Islam because people wouldn't be able to immediately adapt to Islam.

- Jesus is the messenger of Christianity, a prophet, like Muhammad. Muhammad is more special in Islam because he completed the message and he brought the miracle of Qura'an - dictated word for word even thoug hhe couldn't read or write.

 

We'll leave it at that, fine... But Muhammad is the messenger of Islam, and the prophet. There's no arguing that.

 

So if I fly into a building and credit it to Christianity, and then I cite some quote in the Bible, does that mean the Bible is violent?

People like you are the problem. Your "Islam=terrorism" attitude is incredibly primitive. Just because those people did what they did in the name of Islam, doesn't mean Islam is a violent religion. They can say what they want but in the end, they acted out of free will and what they did was wrong. NO, most people DON'T agree with them contrary to what you may think.

The WTC incident was a result of some miseducated, misguided people who were taken advantage of by a bunch of terrorists. Since they were so vulnerable, they were brainwashed and did everything dictated to them by their leaders. Why do you think there were no major members of Al Qaeda in the attack? Because only the weak dumbasses were coaxd into doing it.

 

I would never question what the Qura'an asks me to do.

BTW Max you're wrong about what I think. I would never say "well that's just outrageous, it must be wrong"... I would never be so egotistical as to think God put something in the Qura'an and I am the one to correct him.

kubli9,

The issue lies with faith. I don't care what others think - do you? Who's opinion more important, God or society?

If you believe that a sentence, an order, is given by God... How could you say no to it?

There's nothing in the Qura'an that justifies terrorism. If you think there is, show me. I will correct you.

 

As for adaptation, I would like to say something about that...

Everyone says that Islam should adapt, and Christianity has adapted..

Well that's absurd.

Islam, for one, will never adapt. The Islam states that it will be used for ALL TIME the same way as it is from the day it was written all the way to judgement day. No change, no adjusting to the times. That's in the Qura'an.


As for Christianity, it hasn't adapted. Neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament have changed since they day they were written. The words of Jesus haven't changed, have they?

What has changed is that people apply the rules how THEY see fit, and some people have gone as far as bend the rules (terrorists).

As Christians, you are still supposed to act exactly the way the Bible wants you to do - like Jesus. Even in 10000000 years, you should mold your actions around Jesus. Same with Muslims and Muhammad and how God wants them to act. Muhammad (PBUH) is a perfect example to go by.

 

Sadly, the political policies backed by Hayes and many other Muslim detractors in Iraq, are strengthening the aspects of Islam that they decry.

I remember when I was a kid, in the 1950's women wore hats in Catholic Churches to cover their heads. Probably a remnant from prior centuries. I certainly think that there are Jewsish groups that did or currently do something similar. Christian fundamentalists are not exactly noted for promoting total equality in the family for instance for women.

This is just another Muslim bashing thread-- of the type that would raise claims bigotry if directed at some of the wackier aspects of Judaism or Mormonism for example..

 

Hey HayesStreet,

Q: When you say "Islamicist", is that the same as Muslim? In other words, a believer in Islam? The two words are not really the same thing, from what I've read.

Muslim - believer in Islam
Islamist - believes in Islam as the dominant cultural force (including oppression of others?)
Islamicist - ???

Okay - which groups advocate violence...

Sorry, this is really hard to answer, because unlike Christianity, there are no high heads of church. There is no existing hierarchy within Islam, so I can't say that "followers of x, y, z advocate violence." The list of all the "heads x, y, z" does not exist.

Anybody can become a cleric or whatever if they have the respect of the community and are considered learned. There is no official school (madrassas, etc., fall under each individual sect, not some global community charter).

I think the best way to rejoinder may be to ask you which Muslims believe in peace? Which Muslim leaders believe in peaceful coexistence? The same problem exists - I can't give you a list, but I can tell you it is the vast, vast majority.

For example, I know you can say that al-Sadr in Iraq is advocating violence against America, right? You can probably also say that al-Sistani in Iraq is advocating peace. Why do you (or I) know these names? Only because the American media has reported it. Who else is there? I dunno. Do you? If there are more people coming out in favor of peace, we're at the mercy of the media. Why would they report good news when the bad news is what makes good film?

The minority advocating violence is usually in the Middle East and has confused anti-Zionism with Islam, or it's in parts which are very poor and are lashing out against society. I feel the violence is a cultural and economic symptom, not a religious one. I know you feel differently.

And I again mention - Sane is only one Muslim. He is part of one sect in Islam. There are other sects. There are differing beliefs. Imagine getting all of your information on Christianity from a Catholic. What would you miss? Please keep that in mind.

 

Sane,

SJC is right you are blinded by your faith.

Good luck to you....

DD

 

Very true. Most likely 60 lashes and several weeks in prison. After all, it could be waaay worse. Definitely better than an amputation. I also have to wonder what that warning in Iran must be like


Go ahead and pretend ignorance of how Islam works in countries that really do follow sharia law

 

Have you been to Iran? I'm originally Iranian, have been there many times. My mother, aunts, cousins have all been "warned" right in front of me.

Get your facts straight.

Could you tell me which country is the "60 lashes and several weeks in prison" is for, and where you got that info?

 

- Actually, you are opressing people, which is why they flew into your precious building. It had nothing to do with Islam. As DaDa said, it's just the vehicle they use. If they were from another religion, yes still opressed, then they would use the other religion. If they were from a cult, they would use the cult as an excuse.

- You keep making up stuff like this without backing it up... Show me. An Imam at a Mosque has freedom to say what he wants... But when has someone with authority actually gone out and said "Let's kill Americans"? Unless it's part of some extremist group, it doesn't happen. Show me proof.

Terrorism is not endorsed by Islam. Just like it's not endorsed by the church for Christians. But people still blow up abortion clinics in the name of Christianity. So the Bible has effectively led them to terrorist actions. Is that a correct statement? Hell no.

- I didn't say they weren't educated, I said they were MISeducated, which is different. They were brainwashed, and educated on all the wrong things. Some of those people were only educated to become pilots and complete the WTC attack. They weren't just regular people. They weren't educated on the Western world, they were only educated on the "western world: the devil".

Islam is no doubt going through some hard times because people are using it as an excuse for their stupidity, much like people did for Christianity many many years ago. It will pass, and then you will looks for the next religion to poop on because people are using it as an excuse. The problem is not with the religions, the problem is that poor, desperate, and opressed people will listen to anyone if they are led to believe there's light at the end of the tunnel.

 

To each his own...

I think you're blinded by your lack of faith..


I wasn't a Muslim for a while... I have been on both sides... You on the other hand, have not..

 

come on now

 

Scale of 1 to 1,000... which happens more often in the entire world?

1 = "blow up abortion clinics in the name of Christianity"

1,000 = "Islamic terrorist events"

(Sane painting with the "apples=oranges brush" again... gotta love 'em for that)




And btw- all religions know what Bobby's momma knows...



"Girls are the debil!

 

Common misconception, but that's understandable... we all tend to see through the eyes of our own personal religious views. And in Islam, Muhammed is Allah's messenger, so I can see the ease of the misunderstanding here...

Just some points, and I'll stop.

Jesus was/is Jewish... and had a message of repentance to the Jews first and foremost, being that they were/are God's chosen people... And in spite of knowing their record for turning away the very men of God they needed to hear from, He still went to the Cross.(Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! -Jesus, on the way to his last hours on earth before Calvary.)

He was likewise sent to the entire world... (Luke 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.-Angels, upon the birth of the Messiah) "For God so loved the world, He sent his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." -Jesus, from John 3:16. There is an old Christian song that has a phrase, singable by anyone, that says, "Whosoever, surely meaneth me." And this much is true...

Jesus came for all of mankind. Not "Christians" per se. He is not the "Christian God" or the "Christian messenger." While it is true his follwers are called "Christians."

This is a common misunderstanding. Jesus came to be the bridge from mankind back to God. Adam had burned that bridge. Jesus was the restoration of that communion between Creator and creation.

The term "Christian" means "Christ like" or "followers of Christ's teaching." This term "Christian" did not come about until 100+ years after his ascension.

The sect of Judaism that first followed Christ, which would now be known as "Messianic" or, in some circles, self professed "Fulfilled" Jews, was originally known as the "way." A reference for sure to the verse in John 14:6.. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. This is found in the story of Saul's road to Damascus experience in Acts 9:2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

Of course Saul, a high ranking Jewish religious official known as a "Pharisee" & a persecutor of the Jews that were in "this way", then changed to Paul by this experience of Jesus requesting that he stop persecuting these Jewish believers in Him, surely called them the "way" after his encounter, in retrospect, while explaining the events to Luke, the writer of the book of Acts. Luke, being a physician of the day, and one of the initial 12 disciples of Christ, is understood to have been the most detail oriented of the Gospel writers and was probably hand picked by his contemporaries (and of course, God) to pen the actions or "Acts" of the Apostles because of his attention to detail.

Anyway. Jesus is not the messenger of Christianity, he was/is the message of God's Will that none should perish, but that all can have life eternally through his act of obedience at the Cross.

He was/is the message of God's Love. The "Christian" God is really the "only" God.

Heaven may very well have a "de-tagging" station... and a re-tagging stop that has two tags before the "Judgement."

Tag 1) "Believer."
Tag 2) "Non-Believer."

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

I think Jesus made Himself very clear that He is God in the flesh.

The question is, "Which tag will you have in eternity?"

Romans 10:9-11 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Anyone can have salvation...



...if they'll believe in the savior.