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If Bolton testimony is blocked, our democracy has ended.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Jayzers_100, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. Jayzers_100

    Jayzers_100 Member

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    Yes, it's absolutely an oligarchy if checks and balances are destroyed by one party with a simple majority. I don't have a problem with legislation passing or failing based on party numbers in Congress, that's essentially the understanding we've accepted for some time (though it's gotten worse). But to allow the president to escape due process is one thing. I'm not saying "escape conviction" because the republicans will still probably vote to acquit, and they don't have to explain why. But to block material evidence, to say "you can't even consider evidence that goes to the heart of this issue". That is one of the most frightening concepts imaginable. That sets a precedent that no president can be reviewed. It's allowing the defense to randomly exclude evidence that is unfavorable to them. I still have hope that a majority of public servants will do the right thing.
     
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  2. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    Half of the brain dying is no joke
     
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  3. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    From comments made by Romney it looks like
    Apparently he have documents to prove his statements. What if he have recordings or signed documents copies? Are you going to discredit those as well?
     
  4. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    Dude it's the illegal deep state swamp immigrants that are killing our great republic, please get with the program.
     
  5. Jayzers_100

    Jayzers_100 Member

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    so we should disallow a key witness with direct, material evidence from testifying because...the Left are just gonna come up with something new later on? I don't follow. Do you honestly believe ANY trial should consist of just opening and closing remarks from lawyers without any substantive evidence? A trial without witnesses is not a trial. Point blank. The idea that Senators would even entertain the option of voting against witness testimony is beyond the realm of sanity.
     
  6. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    Executive privilege has already been upheld by the Supreme Court. If the Senate tried to force this it would delay the end of the impeachment and send it to the courts. Eventually the Supreme Court would block certain members of Trump's inner circle from having to testify. Most likely, a few republicans vote against Trump on impeachment because of this (Collins, Romney, Murkowski) but not enough to remove him.
     
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  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Oh, I'm sure Adam Schiff is scared scaredy pants and is running all the way to California because big meanie John Cornyn tweeted in his general direction.

    But, come to think of it, I'm sure he'd gladly trade his way of clowning the Republicans for a few hours (remember the Benghazi hearings?) for Barr, Pompeo, Pence, Devin Nunes, Ron Johnson, who are all material witnesses to the scheme in question , unlike Schiff, or either Biden.
     
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  8. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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    Not if Bolton wants to testify in senate, how will Trump stop him? Lock him up in a cell?
     
  9. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    Is it possible Bolton said no to House but would say yes to Senate because it ups the stakes and amplifies impact? I doubt he just changed his mind, so there must be (as usual) some strategy with him.
     
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  10. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

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    Trump can invoke executive privilege to block his testimony and nothing I've seen shows Bolton wanting to.

    I would like both sides to be able to call any and all witnesses. If the republicans want to turn it into a clown show by calling Biden and Biden Jr that is their call and they can live with the election results that follow. I suspect the republcians would be more interested in calling the whistle blower than either Biden.
     
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  11. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    I am now at the point where I want all witnesses called... including trump. Time to clean this up, once and for all. And I think the American people deserve to watch their testimony.
     
  12. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    So you say, seems like a major conflict of interest. What happened when Nixon tried that in the 70's?
     
  13. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    If by some miracle John Bolton is able to testify and Trump claims executive privilege, can John Roberts do anything legally while presiding over the hearing? I guess it's all speculation at this point...
     
  14. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    There's nothing about his history to suspect that but I'll gladly eat crow for the past three months if hits the hail mary.

    His type is the bitter cold warrior who lamented Vietnam as a liberal moment of weakness and surrender. Plenty of steam has picked up over the last two years to retcon the lead up to Nixon as a "self inflicted" Republican stain upon their Greatness.

    Yeah... tough decision for old proud incompetent White man. Practicing what you preach "rules, responsibilities, principles" or taking one for your team that's locked in a bitter Life and Death struggle with the enemy. :rolleyes:

    Overall, I'm not sure how we as a nation got to the point where one side hopes Bolton got rat****ed by Trump so hardcore to the extent that Bolton is prolonging the drama in order to rat**** Trump even harder at the expense of throwing away the rest of his political and financial career.

    P.S. first 500 copies sold gets a lock of his signature mustache!
     
    #34 Invisible Fan, Jan 27, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
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  15. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  16. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    It's right there, thanks! I hope he does his constitutional duty and with a life appointment on the Supreme Court, what does he have to lose?

    "The rules further empower the chief justice to enforce the subpoena rule. Rule V says: “The presiding officer shall have power to make and issue, by himself or by the Secretary of the Senate, all orders, mandates, writs, and precepts authorized by these rules, or by the Senate, and to make and enforce such other regulations and orders in the premises as the Senate may authorize or provide.” The presiding officer, under our Constitution, is the chief justice. As such, the chief justice, as presiding officer, has the “power to make and issue, by himself,” subpoenas."
     
  17. TheresTheDagger

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  18. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  19. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    ... and, there is this legal opinion... that since trump has tweeted about the conversations, immunity is waived.

     
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  20. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    ngl, would be great to take down trump and the bidens at the same time! 2 for 1 special!!!
     

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