If Artest doesn't return, who will be the team's enforcer?

Gerald Wallace, and Lebron as a matter of fact...

 

Bowen did that because he's dirty, he was in no way an enforcer, i'd even call it more of an accident than enforcing anything..

 

you're giving some really bad examples of an enforcer...Ron wasn't even going up to Howard on that play, he was trying to hold Yao back and went the long way, he had no intention of confronting howard at all.

enforcers are guys like Kenyon Martin...maybe Brad Miller...

 

Lightning strikes twice.

 

You could make a very sound argument that Dwight Howard is willing to play the role of enforcer if any player can be an enforcer with today's officiating and rules.

I don't think every team needs an Xavier McDaniel these days but Ron certainly brought a factor of intimidation that nobody else on the team had. The quiet toughness of Shane, Luis and the gang is very admirable but when things get chippy it just makes them punching bags that the opposition knows won't ever hit back. The Lakers would have completely bullied the Rockets into submission had Ron not made it clear to them what he would do if the rough stuff continued.

 

really? i didn't see that. i saw shane getting right back up and continued to go at kobe on both ends. that's a sign of toughness. i saw luis scola getting right back up after fisher basically sidelined him and came right back up and continued to play well. THAT'S TOUGHNESS.

that's why i hate guys like kenyon martin or bruce bowen or dantay jones, who have to resort to pathetic tactics to get into the other players' heads, when all those things really do is fire the opponents' up. so those guys are NOT enforcers. they're called "dirty" players.

what ron brought was a sense of toughness (when he did use it) in the low post. he was our only player who was willing to bang in the low post (when he went in there) and that created problems. but he rarely did that. that was when he's "tough." unfortunately, he didn't do that enough. i'm seeing melo do it a lot v. ariza, and yet artest rarely posted ariza up.

b/c from what i saw in the lakers series, kobe and ariza went right at ron. i didn't see any intimidation at all.

i thought our team was very tough last year mentally, as indicated by winning in utah TWICE, fighting off and battling through injuries to go on a 22 game winning streak, and taking utah to 6 games despite losing 2 key players and 2-3 other starters being injured. being tough is showing fight. being tough is not backing down. we have those players, with or without ron.

if ron leaves, what we need is to replace a guy who can shoot and finish. and that's it.

 

After reading through the thread we need to decide on the definition of an enforcer. I certainly don't think the definition is the same as it was 15-25 years ago. Dictator Stern would have a player that was an old school enforcer banned from the league before his 5th game of the season.

In my opinion, the enforcers of today are the guys who will physically and aggressively stick up for a team mate or themselves but most of all they leave the other team with the impression that the next cheap move or flagrant foul could be met with a punch (not a shove, not trash talk) in the face. Ron certainly has the effect. Anyone who has played ball at any level or even been in a fight knows that the possibility of someone punching you dead in the face will change how you act around them. Nobody else on this team brought that and unlike most teams the Rockets didn't even have a guy who would get in someone's face other than Rafer and PG can't be enforcers.

 

unless you're better than the guy you're trying to "enforce" yourself upon, nobody really cares.

hence chris paul simply dismissing rafer when he tried to rough him up and went on to obliterate us. hence kobe bryant simply dismissing ron artest and went on to destroy artest every time kobe had a 1-on-1 opportunity v. artest.

to me, if you want to be tough, when someone tries to do something to you or your team, you retaliate by beating the crap out of them by "killing" them offensively and shutting them down defensively. that's why nobody wants to piss kobe or any of the greats off.

unless ron artest is trying to enforce something to peja stojakovic or a player who's not as good as him, it won't really matter.

 

I'm not calling you out so don't take this the wrong way but have you ever played basketball? Have you ever been in a fight or thought you might be? There is a huge psychological impact of knowing the guy across from you might do enough damage to have you at the dentist once a week for the next six months. If he has even done it once before it's a real thought in the back of your mind.

What we saw from Shane and Luis was great. I appreciate their professionalism but what Kobe did to Ron would have never happened if Shane had not let the first incident go without some physical response. Again, I'm glad Shane didn't do anything but I'm also glad Ron did. Also, why do you think Fisher did what he did to Scola? You think he would have done that to Ron in a million years? Of course not. Ron stepped up and let the Lakers know (hell he even said it in the press) that the next time they play prison ball he might go off on them. Just the slight possibility of that happening changes things.

 

I'm not talking about trash talk or even posturing. I'm talking about the guy across from you letting you know this might be the day he smashes your face. If it is someone like KG or Kenyon Martin it isn't that big a deal since there has never been any bite behind the bark but if the guy has bitten before that's different. Ron has bitten and the entire Lakers team acted different because they knew that.

 

if you know the history of ron, ron is only crazy "off the court" before this, and outside of that detroit incident, hasn't done that many crazy stuff on the court that you're talking about. that's why ron has never been called a bad teammate or a dirty player. but he has never done "bad" things on the court (take out that detroit incident). so all the things you claim ron "might" do is pointless. so are you saying guys are scared of stephen jackson b/c he also punched a damn fan?

and i play ball, undergrad and grad IM, along with streetball. guys who do the things you say usually get EMBARRASSED on the court.

try what you are insinuating ron "might" do on a basketball court once and see what happens. if that player has game, they'll go right back at you and would straight up destroy you and force you to leave the game.

 

and yet kobe still throwing elbows at artest throughout the series, talks trash v. him, and relishes the chance to go at ron artest 1-on-1. why can kobe do that? b/c he's better than ron artest.

notice whenever ron guarded kobe, kobe doesn't settle for jumpers in that series, unlike what he did v. shane. he wanted to go at artest and attack the rim EVERY SINGLE TIME. ask yourself why?

 

Sorry JVG no longer the coach for the rockets, so this no longer possible!

Seriously this team needs a LEADER not an enforcer! Last season, Ron played the role of the leader and was very successfully and the team were competitive!

So if Ron doesn't return, we need to look for someone to lead either existing from the team or via free agency.As much as i love Yao, he won't be a great leader!

 

Brent Barry and Marty Leunen...

 

Ok. I guess I'm not a good communicator or maybe you have lived a sheltered life and don't realize that sometimes intimidation goes a long way. You're either the bravest guy in the world or your full of it if a guy like Ron came at you on the court and let you know that at any moment he might knock you out and it didn't intimidate you or make you change how physical you were being with him.

 

No superstar in the the NBA is truly scared of Ron Artest. I like Artest on the team for the most part, and he IS tough, but I think him being an "intimidator," is grossly overrated.

 

no seriously, go try what you say on a basketball court v. the best players on the court where u play at. see what happens.

it's not murder you know. people do throw elbows and play physical on the court, even in streetball.

 

Rons an enforcer period. He brings the toughness that the rockets best player never had and never will have (which is T-Mac). Kobe Bryant is not soft physically, he is one of the toughest players I have ever seen play (both physically and especially mentally).

 

Honestly, I don't think Ron was that successful of a leader. You can argue he brought some leadership to the team but I see Deke as more this teams leader overall since the team mainly got its consistency when he was back in the locker room. Heck, more often or not during the playoffs, I would see Luis Scola or Shane pull Ron or another player aside when it looked like they were about to lose their cool.

I like Ron on this team and he tried to lead but I'm not willing to say it was all him that helped forge the team forward.

 

i never said ron wasn't tough, but i disagree that he's an enforcer. again, i do want him to be on the team again for the right price b/c he does bring things our best players don't.

if you read my argument, you can enforce whatever you want, unless you're better than the other guy, you won't intimidate him one bit (while dave78 argues that ron intimidates anyone regardless b/c of what he "might" do).

there's a reason tracy LOVES to play v. artest. or paul pierce. or melo. or the elite scorers b/c while you rile them up, they tend to play more focused and better.

an enforcer to me is like charles oakley or dennis rodman. they're not dirty players like kenyon martin, but they'll give extremely hard fouls.