There's nothing wrong with hooking up a bum with a couple of bucks so he can go buy a 40. Old English (OE) and Mickey's are only like $1.50 for a 40 oz. Knock out a 40 and you feel pretty good. Chug two 40's and you're f*cked up. I know it's not good to promote drinking for these bums, but what else do they have to look forward to? I'd rather them tell me that they want a 40, than make up a lie like they're going to invest the $2. 40's are fun to drink, especially in a paper bag, and makes you think you're a thug. One of my friend's frat throws a 40 oz. party annually. ------------------ "Oh No..." -Bill Walton in 97 just before Stockton's buzzer beater
Ahhh, the typical Conservative vs. Liberal debate.... Cons.- I think what you are doing is misguided, because the consequences of your actions, although well-intentioned, will cause more harm than good. Lib.- I disagree with the tone of your argument, and I think you have a cold heart. Cons.- I am not being mean. In fact, we both want the same outcome. I just want to take a different course of action. Lib.- I am not concerned with the possible outcome of your course of action. By your tone, it is clear that you are a fascist!! I support giving money to homeless shelters, and I support giving food directly to homeless people. I believe that giving money or alcohol to homeless people is unethical, because there is strong probability that the homeless person is either mentally ill, or a substance abuser. Those of you who think it is cute to "hook up" a mentally ill person with a "40", please investigate the subject. You will see that damaging another person's life is not a nice thing to do. Here are some other folks who share my opinion. Make sure that you write letters to the Director of the Washington D.C. shelter, and tell him what a mean spirited person he is for telling people not to give money directly to the homeless. Washington Post - Sunday, April 11, 1999; Page B08 BEYOND PITY It's time we used our heads to help the homeless. By Robert L. E. Egger At the D.C. Central Kitchen each year, more than 5,000 volunteers help recycle donated food into balanced meals. We listen to these volunteers voice concern that not enough is being done to help the homeless, and we always tell them the same thing: "If you want to help the homeless, use your heads, not your hearts, because your hearts will get broken." By that, we don't mean that the stories of homeless men and women will break their hearts. We're talking about a system that inadvertently seems designed to keep homeless people down. Take the five-year, $30 million D.C. Initiative to stop homelessness that recently came to an end. This initiative to provide a continuum of care for the homeless sprang from genuine horror at the death of Yetta Adams, a woman who died of exposure right outside the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. The idea behind the it was to leverage federal and city funding to build a "continuum of care" to connect diverse programs and prevent homelessness. Yet for all the effort and money spent on the initiative, have the number of people who panhandle on the D.C. streets, line up for food, or sleep outside or in warehouse shelters visibly decreased? No. Why? Because we haven't developed policies or outreach efforts beyond those that were unsuccessful in helping Yetta Adams. To turn the homeless situation around, we need to use our heads as well as our hearts. To borrow a catch phrase, we need to just say no to: Panhandling. Most men and women living on the streets of any city are mentally ill or are chronic substance abusers or both. The four homeless people who died recently in a fire in Fairfax were typical and tragic. They based their lives around two daily routines: panhandling and drinking. While some people may not want to accept help, we should not assist them in continuing an existence that is bleak, destructive and ultimately life-threatening. -- Robert L. E. Egger is director of the D.C. Central Kitchen. -------------- Don't give cash hand-outs to a homeless person, unless so moved to do so! By doing so, you risk the chance of aiding a possible alcoholic or drug addict in getting there next fix, although you will still receive your spiritual blessing from the man up above. Instead, purchase food for that person yourself. If you want to to learn more about homelessness and its relationship to alcohol and drug abuse in the United States visit Join Together. ------------ Panhandlers on PBS. ------------------
In this country a loaf of bread costs $.99, a can of beans is like $.35, and water is like $.25/gallon. Not to mention the handouts the food bank gives. Nobody should be going hungry. If I give a bum a couple of bucks, I expect him to buy a 40 and chug it. ------------------ "Oh No..." -Bill Walton in 97 just before Stockton's buzzer beater
Baqui and others bring up interesting points. Why are we preoccupied w/ how homeless people spend the money they ask for? The reasonable person wouldn't ask the homeless person to spend their cash on spelt and open range chickens. An appetite can be satisfied w/ honey baked ham... or a nice tall stout. The meaning of life for some of these guys is contained within an ice cold brew. Hell, that's the meaning of life for many people that work 40 hours per week. I understand some of Kingrene's intuitions, my father came down w/ his 'sickness' in 78 when his father died. I've probably spoken to my dad 6-8 times since 85. I've spoken to him once or twice since 1990. But, respecting a man is handing him money and not pretending to be his parent. If you want to be a man, connect with a man as his peer. Don't pretend to know the way a man should live his life.
Yeah, the original post was funny. Too bad the thread turned into this. ------------------ "I have no regrets except that I wasn't up to keep Randy from getting on that plane." --Ozzy Osbourne on guitarist Randy Rhodes
LMAO! I don't mean to make light of a serious conversation but that line is just to funny. King, I understand your point and agree with your method but I think TPL was just trying to post a funny conversation he had. Having said that I agree with the point you are making. Otto, King is just playing the odds so as to positively effect as many of the homeless he can. By ignoring the odds you may think that you are giving the homeless person the benifit of the doubt but in reality you are probably helping someone to support a habbit. Look at it this way, if you give a homeless person money there is about a 5-10% chance (maybe) that he does something usefull with the money. If you give the money to a usefull organization like the "Star of Hope" then there is a 100% chance that your money is going to benifit the homeless in a positive way. As was stated earlier if you want to give something directly to the individual then give food, water or clothing then you at least know for certain that the person has recieved something usefull. ------------------
You know, I don't disagree entirely. To some degree, I believe that the only time someone who'se a crack head is only going to really be helped by treatment when they have hit that ubiquitously cliched 'rock bottom', and the only way that happens is by working through their addiction. However, I agree with most of Kingree's opinions in principal, but Kingree's general tone proves to me that he wants to do the right thing for the wrong reasons. The moment that you begin to assume a population is of less value than another, then it then is a short step to considering them 'subhuman'. Pretty soon, your 'tough love' involves rounding up all of the homeless and throwing them in a cage to keep them out of the sight of decent, upstanding folk. Then, it's pretty easy to move on to other populations, in Naziesqe fashion like Jews, and homosexuals. I appreciate that Kingree is most likely correct. That doesn't imply that you should, as i so often see, blatently ignore the homeless person, or respond with derision. My point is that homeless people are people nonethless. If a homeless person asks you for something that I don't want to give them, I think you owe them the same respect that you would give, say, your great aunt. Look them in the eyes, explain your position regarding handouts, or at least respond with a 'little white lie' like, "I'm sorry, but I have nothing to spare." And get on with your life. If, then, they procede to pester or hound you, then respond appropriately. In my experience, however, adding a bit of human respect to the equation makes the whole transaction more human. ------------------
Kingrene, a question for you. Do you love the homeless enought to vote to increase the taxes on those in the upper income groups, , so that more money can go to the food stamp (as it used to be called) program? A liberal tough love approach is to recognize that the food stamp offices do much more to feed the poor and many of the homeless than all of the Star of Hopes, Churches. society women fundraisers put together. Perhaps by a factor of a 100. The point of light and private charity approach to poverty has failed in this counry. Go to Germany for instance and see the lack of poverty and begging like you see in Houston or in Mexico. I must admit that when you pay your taxes you don't get the selfrighteous fuzzy feeling that you get when donating money or time to the Star of Hope. However, being factual and taking a tough minded approach shows that private charity is a drop in the bucket. Unfortunatley the concept of private charity is often part of a conscious ideological offensive by very rich conservatives of pretending to be "compassionate conservatives" and rationalizing why they should personally get large tax cuts when there are so many poor people in the USA. It also helps of course to get people making $15 per hr or less to vote for tax decreases largely for those making over $200 grand per yr. ------------------
I think that most people have worked out their own personal policy on the issue. When I first came to Boston, I was a sucker. I'm from a small town in Texas, and gave my change to almost everyone. In time, I developed a new policy: I give to people who I have never seen in the same location before. I don't want to reward people who want to be a bum "for life" or support bad habits, but sometimes it's really a one-time-thing. Heck, I've had to beg once, and it was really an eye opening experience. It was Sunday, and my girlfriend used her T pass to get both herself and me on (on Sunday it works for 2). Little did I know, I had forgotten my wallet at home. I had absolutely no cash on me... and I realized this after my girlfriend had gotten on a plane to fly to Utah. So, I had to ask people for money. It was humiliating... and the response of many of them was really rude. Luckily, the 5th person I asked gave me a dollar, but two of them mouthed obscenities at me. If you're going to put up with that... you must really need the money. Some of them are alcoholics, I'm sure. Others might not be. I volunteer at a food kitchen every weekend. But I also give money to bums. And I've never heard the peole at the food kitchen voice the opinion that it's misguided to give a dollar to bums now and then. Maybe the Star of Hope is different. Oh, and I agree with glynch, too . Public services are really the best solution. ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news. [This message has been edited by haven (edited July 18, 2001).]
