Robert Horry has won 4 championships and will probably win more, Steve Kerr has won 4 as well. Scottie freaking Pippen has six titles - double of that of Birds. Wilt and Hakeem have won twice. Charles Barkley and Karl Malone, arguably two of the greatest power forwards of all time, haven't won squat. Judging a player solely by the jewelry on his fingers is just ridiculous. Azim da Dream ------------------ "Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease." - Geroge W. Bush, commenting on the troubled continent, to reporters in Sweden
The difference is that I am comparing superstars. I find the idea of Larry Bird being the best player ever laughable. Did someone forget about Jordan? ------------------ Protrolls.com! RITQAIOCLHTPFOTFWBPTD
Did Magic, complain to refs and get star treatment from them? Sure. But that doesn't mean he wasn't great. He was great. He could and did do it all. One of the reasons is that he was more about winning than his own personal glory. Though Magic did know how to turn it on for the camera etc. He was good at acting the part, though I think sometimes it might not be the most sincere. I think Bird was also a great player. I do think he was more overrated than Magic though. Bird could play team defense, but his individual defense was severely lacking. And on occasion it was possible to shut Bird out. I think the Rockets held him to 8 points in a finals game, and then 12 points in another finals game in '81. I am not totally sure, but I think he may have only averaged around 13-14 pts in that series. Though he was still young at that poin. It was also that series that Bird managed to follow up his own shot to make that incredible basket with time running out. Anyway while Bird did do the little things, and Boston won, I think at least for that finals it wasn't Bird that carried the weight. ------------------
With the skills Larry had to work with, he accomplished an awful lot. Much more than anyone ever thought he would. Didn't Jordan score 63 on the Celtics in a playoff game, yet the Bulls still lost the game? And the series. ------------------ When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.- Albert Einstein
Larry Bird was amazing....truly. I have a lot of old video tapes and such, and watching him is just awe inspiring, especially considering the limited athletic ability he was given. Larry at times, would even tell his opposition exactly what he was going to do, and say, "Try and stop it." Chuck Person, whom Larry had GREAT battles with, said it in an interview. Do I think he was a better player than Michael? Probably not...but they were both on a different level than most other players. ------------------ My doctor says I am bipolar. I am going to get a second opinion. I have never had intimate desires for polar bears.
I'm not denying that Bird was a great player, but Jordan was far superior. ------------------ Protrolls.com! Save Our Game Action Forum! [This message has been edited by ZRB (edited June 21, 2001).]
I guess I have to spell this out for you. MJ could run like a deer and jump through the roof. He had all the skills (and more) I am not arguing he was the best to ever play. Larry, on the other hand could not run like a deer (maybe like a turtle), could not jump throught the roof (maybe he could touch the net ) yet he became a superstar. Based on the talent each had, Larry was the better player. Understand now? ------------------ When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.- Albert Einstein
You did not watch much ball in the 80's did you? Your discription of Magic could not be more off. I would suggest finding some tapes of Magic and then re-evaluate. They did not call it showtime for nothing. ------------------
Magic was the best team player to ever play the game, and maybe the most versatile(although you can argue for Oscar Robertson). But Michael has to be considered the best, just because of not only his unbelievable offensive skills, but he was the whole package: able to score at will, rebound, dish, post up, shoot the jumper, phenomenal defender, ability to come through in the clutch, and outstanding athleticism. Add that to his incredible drive and desire to succeed, and you have the most complete basketball player ever. ------------------ "I look kind of dumpy. Look at my butt. And what kind of shoes do they have me wearing? At least they got the chinstrap beard right." -Kevin Garnett on the KG bobblehead dolls during KG bobblehead doll night at the Target Center [This message has been edited by LiLStevie3 (edited June 21, 2001).]
And yes Larry got the most out of his talents and athleticism than anybody to ever play the game. ------------------ "I look kind of dumpy. Look at my butt. And what kind of shoes do they have me wearing? At least they got the chinstrap beard right." -Kevin Garnett on the KG bobblehead dolls during KG bobblehead doll night at the Target Center
Yeah, but Jordan could never shoot like Larry. Yet, he became a great shooter. The Argument goes both ways. Jordan wasn't blessed with great skills, great leaping, or great speed. He Worked to get those things over an entire lifetime. Just as Bird did with his shooting. What made both players great was that they found way to overcome their weakness. They found a way to conceal it. ------------------ humble, but hungry.
Magic and Bird remind me of chess masters who saw 10-20 moves in advance. The seemed to be constantly thinking 10-20 seconds ahead of the other players on the court, it seems to be the only way they could have pulled off some of the things they did. ------------------ "I always thought it was something that went around my house" - World B. Free on Defence
""I look kind of dumpy. Look at my butt. And what kind of shoes do they have me wearing? At least they got the chinstrap beard right." -Kevin Garnett on the KG bobblehead dolls during KG bobblehead doll night at the Target Center" Has anyone besides Herve Villishays (Phonetic spelling) ever looked like a bobble head doll? The plane, boss, the plane. ------------------ "We're having a pretty good time considering one day we're all going to die." Steve Martin, 1976 [This message has been edited by PinetreeFM60 (edited June 21, 2001).]
I agree. Jordan worked so hard on his shortcomings that you forgot he even had them in the first place. Larry, on the other had, still had a few glaring weaknesses that he could have worked just a bit more on (defense, muscle tone, proper towel waving ). I'm not denying that Bird was a great player, just that he may not have made the most of his abilities compared to Mike. ------------------ The season's over, but the 'Stros have started. Guess I'm still gonna be nursing that keg...
LOL, that's funny Pinetree, I got thaty quote from the Slam magazine with Vince Carter on the cover. ------------------ "I look kind of dumpy. Look at my butt. And what kind of shoes do they have me wearing? At least they got the chinstrap beard right." -Kevin Garnett on the KG bobblehead dolls during KG bobblehead doll night at the Target Center
