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Hoping for the future

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Aug 24, 2009.

  1. thadeus

    thadeus Member

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    it's a basso thread!
     
  2. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    There is no debate, bush even squashed these techniques after re-election
     
  3. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Yes, a link to a Cheney statement dutifully presented by Stephen Hayes in The Weekly Standard is all that's needed to make us commies quiver. (Have there ever been two people so wrong about everything?)

    In all seriousness basso, what planet do you live on?
     
  4. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Greenwald writes well...
     
  5. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. basso

    basso Member
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    would definitely hit.
     
  7. basso

    basso Member
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    ruh roh.
    [rquoter]Morale at CIA Plummets as Panetta Makes a Bad Situation Worse
    Posted By Nate Hale On August 25, 2009 @ 10:28 am In . Feature 01, Crime, History, Homeland Security, Media, Politics, US News | 37 Comments

    When Leon Panetta took over the CIA earlier this year, he was described (in some circles) as the wrong man for the wrong job at the wrong time.

    Seven months later, that assessment is proving eerily prescient. As the agency prepares for a politically-charged investigation of its interrogation practices, Mr. Panetta’s leadership is noticeably lacking. Indeed, there is growing evidence that the director’s recent actions have made a bad situation worse.

    We refer to the manufactured “scandal” surrounding the agency’s plans to enlist contractors in the hunt for high-value terror targets. That proposal — which involved the controversial security firm Blackwater — was discussed on several occasions, but never reached the operational stage. Three previous CIA directors declined to brief the proposal to Congress, largely because there was nothing to it.

    But that didn’t stop Mr. Panetta from rushing to Capitol Hill when he learned of the project, offering an emergency briefing to members of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees. Congressional Democrats immediately pounced on Panetta’s admission, saying it supported claims (by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi) that the spy agency had repeatedly lied to lawmakers.

    Sources now suggest that Mr. Panetta regrets his actions. Columnist Joseph Finder, who writes for the Daily Beast [1], reported last week that the CIA director spoke with his predecessors after he reported the program’s existence to members of Congress. George Tenet, Porter Goss, and Michael Hayden were all aware of the program, but they elected not to inform Congress because it never evolved past the “PowerPoint” stage.

    My own contacts within the intelligence community paint a similar picture. There were a few meetings (along with that slide presentation), but the CIA made no effort to make the program operational. Indeed, the planned involvement of contractor personnel made agency personnel nervous, one reason the project never moved past the discussion stage.

    In other words, Leon Panetta created an unnecessary scandal at the very moment his agency is facing increased scrutiny. According to the Washington Post [2], Attorney General Eric Holder will appoint a special prosecutor to examine allegations that CIA officers and contractors violated anti-torture laws during interrogations of terror suspects.

    Mr. Holder’s reported decision is anything but a surprise. Literally from the day they took office, members of the Obama administration have been weighing a probe into CIA practices under President George W. Bush. The recent leaks about the agency’s potential partnership with Blackwater — and claims of interrogation abuse — were little more than groundwork for Eric Holder’s pending announcement.

    To counter the gathering tempest, the CIA needs its own advocate, someone who can factually counter allegations of widespread misconduct. The fact is, Mr. Holder’s special counsel will investigate only a dozen cases of reported abuse out of literally thousands of interrogations conducted by CIA specialists and contract personnel. Has anyone at Langley asked if such an inquiry represents a legitimate use of government resources? Or is it simply a taxpayer-funded witch hunt, aimed at placating the ultra-liberal wing of President Obama’s party?

    True, the director of the Central Intelligence Agency can’t exactly say that sort of thing in public, but you’d think that Mr. Panetta — the ultimate Washington insider — knows how the game is played. Leaks can be countered with more leaks, providing the agency’s own version of events. Better yet, the DCI could call the bluff of his opponents at the ACLU and the White House by demanding the release of documents which affirm the effectiveness of CIA interrogations — and the limited use of so-called “torture techniques.” (Note: the CIA Inspector General’s report was released after this was written and can be found here [3].)

    Instead, Leon Panetta became obsessed with a non-scandal, losing valuable opportunities to defend his agency and its personnel. One retired CIA official I spoke with referred to him as “another Colby,” — a reference to William Colby, the DCI who cooperated with the Church and Pike Committees that probed agency abuses in the 1970s. To this day, many CIA employees feel that Colby went too far in his cooperation, opening the door for increased congressional oversight that gutted the agency’s covert operations directorate.

    The bitter “Colby” reference is a sure sign that morale at Langley is plummeting. And with good reason. The looming special counsel inquiry will make a skittish organization even more risk averse. Talented personnel will continue to leave the agency, believing (correctly) that the CIA will leave them twisting in the wind when the going gets tough.

    It’s a trend that is sadly familiar. Following previous scandals in the 70s and 80s, thousands of skilled analysts and operations specialists left Langley for greener pastures, leaving behind the hacks and politicians who presided over such intelligence debacles as 9-11.

    Strong leadership could go a long way in taking on the agency’s critics and preventing another mass exodus from the agency. But sadly, Mr. Panetta is not that type of leader. Without any meaningful intelligence experience (except as a consumer) the former Democratic congressman and White House chief of staff was asked to lead the CIA during a time of difficult transition under the new director of national intelligence construct.

    To his credit, Panetta has fought some battles for his agency. ABC News [4] reports the DCI erupted into a tirade during a White House meeting that apparently laid out plans for Holder’s investigation. Sources tell ABC that Panetta also threatened to resign, although a CIA spokesman denies those claims.

    Meanwhile, the White House is said to be screening possible replacements, suggesting that Panetta’s departure is all but inevitable. Under normal circumstances, the removal of an ineffectual CIA director would be welcome news. But these are extraordinary times; American troops are fighting two wars and the threat from global terrorists remains critical. At a time when the agency needs an exceptional hand on the tiller, Mr. Panetta has only one thing going for him: his potential replacement are likely to be even worse, setting the stage for more bloodletting — and diminished capabilities — at Langley.[/rquoter]
     
  8. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    you're hilarous, you post a total opinion piece with no actual quote from any member of the CIA on morale from pajamasmedia and attach your little "ruh roh" tag.

    have any of your ruh roh's panned out
     
  9. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    I love how supposed supporters of the CIA believe that it's going to totally crumble and morale can't hold up because they are weeding out and holding accountable people who tortured and didn't follow the guidelines.

    I have a little more faith in the CIA and its agents than that.
     
  10. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I've never been a fan of Obama's "looking to the future" stuff. There are some things in our recent past that need some serious examination and correction. But, as I understand it, this investigation won't be looking at the legality and ethics of sanctioning torture in the first place. So, it might be a little important in a criminal punishment sense, it really does nothing to address my concerns about abuse of power. A big yawn for me.
     
  11. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Good article in Time...

     
  12. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    What's redacted? Amazingly, reporters tried to find out...

     
  13. basso

    basso Member
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    dude, i'm on the dark side, no surprise, but i can't read that ****. use a different tag, [rquoter] is preferred...

    kain't cha see, kain't cha see, what this font, it's been doin' ta me...
     
  14. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    I do enough by going out and getting info that consistently proves you are wrong on everything. I'm not going to hold your dick while you pee.
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Really? I went to the darkside for a minute just to see what it looks like. It's not hard to read. Your eyesight is failing?
     
  16. basso

    basso Member
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    presbyopia.

    i also have CSS.
    Can't See ****
     
  17. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Oops!

    McCain Whacks Cheney: Torture Violated Law And Helped The Terrorists

    In a strong pushback against claims made by former Vice President Dick Cheney, Sen. John McCain insisted on Sunday that the use of torture on terrorism suspects violated international law, didn't work, and actually helped al Qaeda recruit additional members.

     
  18. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Cheney: Investigations Motivated by politics

    Also, Obama doesn't know what it takes to protect country


     
  19. basso

    basso Member
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    cheney is correct, as usual. WaPo, via Tom Macguire

    The debate over the effectiveness of subjecting detainees to psychological and physical pressure is in some ways irresolvable, because it is impossible to know whether less coercive methods would have achieved the same result. But for defenders of waterboarding, the evidence is clear: Mohammed cooperated, and to an extraordinary extent, only when his spirit was broken in the month after his capture March 1, 2003, as the inspector general's report and other documents released this week indicate.

    Over a few weeks, he was subjected to an escalating series of coercive methods, culminating in 7 1/2 days of sleep deprivation, while diapered and shackled, and 183 instances of waterboarding. After the month-long torment, he was never waterboarded again.

    "What do you think changed KSM's mind?" one former senior intelligence official said this week after being asked about the effect of waterboarding. "Of course it began with that."​
     
  20. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    basso, who do you think is correct on torture? mccain or cheney?
     

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