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"He was not saint, but he didn't deserve to

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Senator, May 29, 2020.

  1. IBTL

    IBTL Member
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    regardless any resistance is not cause for 10 minute neck hold
     
  2. JumpMan

    JumpMan Contributing Member
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    I didn't say it was.

    I didn't even want to correct JayGoogle because George Floyd was 100% murdered. But it is important to work with all of the facts. At least the facts that we currently have. We'll see what body cam footage shows and what other evidence is revealed.
     
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  3. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Who wrote that report?

    The police, of course, claimed he was resisting.

    We see him fall one time. We also know he's already handcuffed. So he's already detained.

    https://nypost.com/2020/05/27/video-does-not-appear-to-show-george-floyd-resisting-arrest/

    This is another video of him being handcuffed before falling. I don't see how falling would even be considered resisting arrest, being on the ground, unless you know BJJ or something, is not the sort of advantageous position for anyone to be in. Especially if they are already handcuffed.

    The question here is why did they pull him out of the car in the first place?
     
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  4. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Imagine a gang member was able to write their own report on a gang shootout where they killed people and people just trusted it at face value like the criminal justice system does with police reports.
     
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  5. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    Think for themselves? You are the one parroting white nationalist talking points
     
  6. JumpMan

    JumpMan Contributing Member
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    There will be more evidence that comes out that will be friendly to Chauvin. Be ready.

    I think you know an arrest isn't just handcuffs. For example, I have never been arrested, but I have had handcuffs on me. We'll see if the report is true when it says he let himself fall repeatedly when body cam footage is released. If he did, that is a form of resisting arrest because you are not allowing the arrest to be completed.

    What did he do inside the car? You are not going to like this, but Floyd was probably noncompliant and still resisting. The body cam footage will be released. I hope to be wrong.

    I don't know if cops are trained to force someone to be compliant through some sort of restraint. But if they are, then that is why Chauvin pulled him out. To use force to get Floyd to comply.

    None of that excuses Chauvin's direct actions that led to Floyd's death. The evidence that will convict Chauvin of 3rd degree murder is all in the 10 minute video. The fact that Chauvin didn't let up even after being told that they didn't find Floyd's pulse and the fact that Chauvin had a history of being a shitty cop are the strongest pieces of evidence against him ATM. They make the 3rd degree murder charge, as written, appropriate and the surest charge that could stick. They also are evidence to use against the remaining 3 officers.

    That is me speaking completely unemotionally and detached from the history of police relations with blacks. The law doesn't care about emotions or history so I suggest we all detach a bit and compartmentalize the different aspects of this case.

    Just be ready. The second autopsy report will probably echo the main points of the preliminary autopsy in that it will state that the combination of the trauma of the arrest plus other mitigating factors all played a part in Floyd's death. It will be more friendly to Floyd and attribute a larger part of his death to Chauvin's action, but don't expect it to ignore other factors if those factors could have also contributed to his death.

    I am prepared for the rest of the evidence to support the police officers. I am prepared to see Floyd resisting arrest on the body cam. It's not going to change the fact that Chauvin murdered him in a fit of evil rage or the fact that the other officers made a criminal error in judgment when they decided not to intervene. I hope I am wrong.
     
  7. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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  8. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Are we sure about that? Could it be that Chauvin just murdered a man on camera for no other reason than ego, pride, and a power trip? What if they don't have a relevant body cam?

    My point is there wasn't any proof that he was resisting arrest. Police reports of any kind are only evidence in the absence of it, like an eyewitness report, it's evidence that can be contradicted by video or some other harder kind of evidence.

    I still would say falling down is not resisting arrest, he had medical issues, an officer even noted that, he was handcuffed (which impairs balance) and he was being shoved around. We saw him fall once, from what I saw it did not look like he was intentionally trying to fall.

    Nothing about my argument is emotional, there just isn't proof that he resisted arrest. We can't assume that he was doing so because he was pulled out of the car. How do you know what provoked Chauvin? Maybe he said something? Maybe this officer is just an egomaniac and decided he was going to 'put him in his place' and had an urge to display his power. I don't know, but nothing in that video says 'resisting arrest'. I mean they had him cuffed and inside the car and suddenly he's on the ground with a knee in his neck.

    The only thing I can think of is that he spat on an officer in the car or kicked at an officer in a car and they pulled him out and did that. Him being cuffed and in a car doesn't leave many reasonable options for him to resist arrest.
     
  9. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    While the body cam footage hasn't been released, don't you think the DA had it before writing up the charges?
     
  10. JumpMan

    JumpMan Contributing Member
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    Well, like chow said, they'll want protect themselves.

    I don't know. I hope you're right.

    There are ways to resist arrest in a car and ways to show that you aren't willing to go along with the ride.

    I hope I'm wrong.

    For sure, which is why they are pursuing a 3rd degree murder charge. I don't think it will show much else to support anything more.
     
  11. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Your little dog and pony shows are nothing but pathetic displays put on by a small and bitter man. People who actually want to discuss the subject do so with verifiable facts not prejudiced garbage and stereotypes. Because you know... the rap music.
     
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