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Green and Whitmore off the ball

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Will, Jan 17, 2024.

  1. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member

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    Lol.
     
  2. invocux

    invocux Member

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    What a ridiculously low iq post. There are a lot of players itl who haven't showed any significant growth are still playing. RJ hasn't really improved a lot over the years but he was still starting for Knicks until he got drafted. Teams make such mistakes. They don't want to let go of their high draft picks because that's accepting failure in their eyes but they should. Jalen improved at certain areas and regressed at certain areas so overally he didn't improve. He grabs rebounds but shoots even worse than last season. He is not as agressive as he was b4. He is starting because Ime probably thinks he is the best sg he has on the roster. It's not because he 'deserves' to start because our other sg is a rookie lol. Nobody other than Green stans think he deserves to start. Do you think Ime like this guy? He's sitting him in the 4th quarters. He doesn't like him he's not an Ime player. The only reason Jalen is starting is 1) Our best sg is a rookie and they don't fully trust him yet 2) Management thinks that Silas was the reason he looked terrible and they want to give him another chance 3) They are playing him to trade him. I assure you that nobody other than you guys think that he deserves to start.


    Because he can shoot. He has go to moves. He doesn't take weird shots from 40 ft. He has soft touch around the rim. He knows feeding the hot hand. He recognizes mismatches. Murray thrives because he's high iq guard. It's not Sengun's fault that Green is terrible. Murray can shoot from anywhere man you guys are so f.cking sad it pains me to even explain you this.

    Another bullshit from a bullshit artist like you. It's extremely easy to score in this league if you can shoot the ball. Perimeter defenders, centers are not even allowed to touch you. Slightest contact is called foul. This league is designed for 'buckets'. Defenders are just decorations nowadays. Doncic said it a while ago, it is easier to score in NBA than in Europe. Almost any guard who takes 15 shots averages at least 17 points. Monk takes 12 shots and averages 15. Is he not going to average 18 if he takes 15? He will because he can shoot and create his own shot. Clarkson takes 15 shots and averages 18. Jalen took 18 shots and averaged 22pts last season. He had TS% of 53.8. Below the average. A player can 'portray' himself as 'bucket' if he can shoot a little and take abnormal amount of shots.
     
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  3. NewAge

    NewAge Member

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    I think you’re wasting your time. @Stephen_A is being obtuse on purpose
     
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  4. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    The NBa is a make or miss league, always has always will be and that's only fair cuz these player make millions of dollars playing a game.

    I like Jalen but shooting this badly is unacceptable, this game wouldn't be close and need OT if Jalen was a better shooter and scorer. I know he is dealing with a lot of hate and crap but he better suck that up and play better cuz RN he doesn't deserve to be a starter. Maybe Rockets should consider giving him a week off to clear his head and have him do a mini camp with Ben Sullivan. Whatever it is something needs to be done cuz he is hurting the team.

    If it were up to me I'd bench Jalen and start Whitmore at the sg spot, despite being a rookie and having that tunnel vision Whitmore is showing he is a lethal scorer and can be that perimeter option we need alongside Sengun and Jabari.
     
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  5. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    It's funny because Whitmore doesn't exactly have the greatest shot selection either. He forces a lot of shots, the only difference is that he just makes them so it doesn't even matter at the end of the day. If you can consistently score tough shots, its no longer a tough shot.

    I'm starting to think it's not even a shot selection issue with Green, hes just not good at shooting, and too weak to force things at the rim.
     
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  6. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Yeah Green takes a lot of good shots and he has pretty good reads that's why he gets a lot of assists. Problem is his shot is broke and like you said he is too weak to force shots thats why he is always inefficient.
     
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  7. NewAge

    NewAge Member

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    Weak how? Physically or mentally?
    It's true that Cam has exceptional build and strength, players like Ja Morant or Iverson didn't have that...
    Green is just mentally soft and feminine, that's been the issue.
     
  8. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    His FG % is now below 40 % after half of the season.

    Hopefully he can significantly improve on that, and quickly.
     
  9. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Tripling down to the last second of Jalen.
     
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  10. Joe Rocket

    Joe Rocket Member

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    Ive never seen someone get owned so much in one thread as you and you just keep on going lol Your posts are like Jalen Greens shots, all misses.
     
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  11. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    You’re entitled to your opinion. And your argument for Jalen not starting with your 3 bullet points is not an assessment or analysis backed by anything but conjecture unless you have reporting information that talks about management’s intentions. Not sure what your argument with Cam is. I have mentioned specifically why Cam doesn’t start due to poor defense consistently missing assignments and that he doesn’t provide playmaking and passing. He isn’t even a SG playing 3 in college and 3 in lineups with Green-Amen or Green-Whitmore. Udoka let him play deeper in 4th last night possibly since he needed offense and Whitmore was shooting well.

    Now on to your theory that more FGA’s means more points. This is a fallacy and faulty logic since this means all a player has to do is jack up more shots and he can get more points. If this is the case then Monk’s teammate Javale Mcghee would score 18 points in 12 FGA at his rate of 3 FGA for 4.5 points.

    This is similar to the old rehashed per 36 argument. Most of these metrics people cite are composed of normalized data meaning the data was transformed to decrease variation and make things easier to compare. Per 100, per 36, plus minus are examples of normalized metrics. But the data doesn’t explain the full story or is a complete evaluation of a player. That’s why scouts are still important in this era of analytics.

    If Mcghee can score 18 pts with 12 FGA and 20 per 36 does this mean any player scoring at his rate would hit these numbers?

    Take Josh Giddey. His FGA per game is about 10.7 this year avg at 11.7 ppg. That’s about 3 pts less than Monk. According to your logic if Giddey only had 1 more FGA per game he would score 15 ppg as much as Monk? At his rate he would only score 13.2 ppg on 12 FGA. That’s 2 pts less than Monk.

    That’s the flaw in your logic. It doesn’t take player ability into account. I don’t know why Monk only plays 26 min a game and not a starter. But clues from the past can help analysis. He’s never been a starter his whole career except 37 games in 21-22. Likely because he wasn’t as good as the other starters or the coach thought he would be best suited to play in the second unit. He was never a great dribble drive player as his paint numbers show and his role was 3 pt specialist most of his career. He is driving more this year at 12.6 drives a game. This year’s final numbers aren’t complete but historically he isn’t a great one on one /dribble drive player. Main point is it’s about ability.

    Players are put in starting lineups and given touches and plays due to ability and role on the team. Otherwise any player with a good scoring rate can score 20 with 18 FGA which simply isn’t true. The players getting around 18 touches per game include:
    Lebron 24.7 ppg
    Randle 24.1 ppg
    Rozier 23.6 ppg
    Brown 23.1 ppg
    George 23.9 ppg
    Simons 22.9 ppg

    All these guys are top 1-2 scoring options on their team and all playing over 33 minutes or more. Do you see Kevin Huerta or Deanthony melton or monk logging these numbers? Because it’s not their role and they don’t have the same abilities in terms of how they play. That’s why deeper analysis is needed to see where and how they score on the floor among several other factors such as style of play etc.

    And besides your logic and per 36 metrics for instance doesn’t take into account player endurance, his role in the offense, team pace, team Possessions that includes takeaways from opposing defenses etc. That would affect a player’s scoring.

    But you want to be lazy and not do the work and come at me with surface analysis and assumptions. Makes you look really dumb dude.
     
    #171 Stephen_A, Jan 21, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2024
  12. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    He just keeps doubling down on stupid.
     
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  13. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    If you have nothing to contribute other than a cheap shot at me Then please stay in your lane. I already owned you and debunked the lies of your little clique. A group of bitter haters and bi*ches
     
  14. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    That’s your analysis for everything right lil bobby? You had no real defense when I exposed you. I guess this little cheap retort makes you feel better? I already own you bobby
     
  15. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    My guy, even you have to know that you're effectively nothing more than a punch line. The fact that several here are laughing at you for your ignorant rejection of the objective shouldn't surprise you.

    When I point out what the numbers say, that's really the end of the conversation. Nothing you've said advanced the conversation beyond that, so I just let it die. If you want to claim victory, simply because I stopped arguing with an idiot that had nothing of substance to add to any basketball conversation, go for it.
     
  16. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Didn’t read your retort. Don’t care. I made my points clearly backed with knowledge, facts, data. You and any of you can disagree and entitled to your thoughts. If any of you don’t understand or agree with what I’m saying by now you will never agree. But one thing is clear that you and those who argue in the same vein as you are haters. Now y’all directed your hatred towards me. Y’all always find someone to hate. Telling. Lol but I already exposed y’all lmao
     
    #176 Stephen_A, Jan 21, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2024
  17. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Still waiting on those reports that says management is playing Green to trade him. And also management wanting to give him another chance. Maybe you’re part of the Stone’s management team? A friend who is an insider told you? You speak for all Rockets fans now? All fans agree with you about Green? Or everyone meaning all NBA fans? Obviously this is a lie. Lol you’re dumb AF dude sad
     
  18. invocux

    invocux Member

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    Anyone who thinks it's hard to score in NBA is only slightly more intelligent than a chimpanzee with learning disability so i'm going to have you ignore you sorry.
     
  19. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Stupid ass retort
     
  20. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Petty bi+ch. This has nothing to do with my response and exposure of your faulty logic about FGA. Funny you bring up literacy because if you read that article about Doncic he never said scoring was easy in the NBA. He said “scoring is easier in the NBA just because of the different rules, the amount of space, the time, so that's why I said it's easier to score in the NBA.” Easier because of court dimensions and rules you idiot. Doesn’t mean anyone can score. If anyone can why isn’t everyone in the league or starting? But this is why your analysis sucks because you barely even understand a simple article you read and make dumbass assumptions. Are you a professional balller? Right.
     

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