Well, hell, I guess I have to try and watch Deep Space Nine or Babylon 5 again. I tried a few years ago and just couldn't get through a few episodes. I trust yall, mostly, though.
For me at least B5 was a show to watch during its run or shortly after -- watching it in 2020 would be tough.
Honestly, you can skip the first 2 seasons of DS9 after the pilot. They are a real slog and honestly have minimal impact on the awesomeness of the later seasons.
Yeah, the toughest thing for me was trying to ignore the battles early on where they looked like they just put a chair in a phone booth and called it a fighter ship. If you can't ignore the special effects, you won't make it to the best part of the series which doesn't get going until around seasons 2-4. The 5th season has some "wow" moments of its own which I won't mention. There is some acting throughout the series that I never liked (like Ivanova), but everybody has their opinions. Then there are masterpieces of character evolution that I loved (G'Kar and Londo).
This thread is a blast from the past. Should be updated to include The Expanse. I’m standing by my vote for DS9 but The Expanse is very close behind. I’ve seen three episodes of Star Trek Discovery and wasn’t particularly impressed but should probably include it in the discussion. One other show that should be in the discussion but got canned too quickly was the V reboot.
Reading through some of the comments. It seems like a lot of people didn’t like Jake Sisko or Nog on DS9. I agree I felt Jake Sisko was a relatively weak character but that was only compared to the rest of the cast. Unlike Wesley Crusher Jake wasn’t a know it all boy wonder but just an average kid trying to figure things out. They did give him some growth by having him become a writer instead of going to Starfleet. He was also the focus of what I think is one of the best episodes in all of Star Trek, and I mean all of Star Trek, called “The Visitor”. Tony Todd plays an adult Jake Sisko in an alternate timeline and he is a brilliant actor. Foranyone out there that has ever lost or been worried about a parent it will get you. Nog is the character in the series that experiences the most growth and development. He starts out as an annoyance and as a way to show off that Jake Sisko is good with a not so subtle shot at how Federation values are superior to Ferengi. He makes a massive change when he decides go to Starfleet Academy including coming to terms with his own shame and weakness. In Starfleet he’s an eager gung ho cadet bound for glory only to end up becoming a disenchanted wounded veteran who retreats to a fantasy world. An incredible arc and a real credit to the late Aaron Eisenberg who died this past September for pulling it off.
I’m on an extended trip and was recently in Egypt and Greece. I couldn’t help thinking about Stargate all through Egypt and visiting the temples of the System Lords like Hathor, Her’er Ur / Horus and Anubis. Also in Greece was thinking about the TOS episode with Apollo when I went to Delphi. While those shows were fun takes on the Ancient Aliens idea (I tried to find a ring transport system in the Pyramids) shows like B5, DS9, and BSG got much deeper into the questions of religion, myth, history, and prophecy that were also dealt with by the Ancient Egyptians and Greeks. While there were tons of action in those shows a big part of those shows was trying time understand the motivations of god like beings and also where humans/ human like aliens fit into the universe. The question of whether humans are just pawns of higher powers whether they’re Olympians Vorlons or Prophets or trapped in a cycle of prophecy were questions that were asked 3,000 years ago.
The only answer is DS9. Anyone who didn't vote for DS9 couldn't have seen its last 5 seasons. I've seen every episode of Firefly plus the movie. It's a really fun show, but DS9 is the progenitor of long-form television shows - it was revolutionary.
My list (in order): Deep Space 9 Babylon 5 Stargate Saga (SG1, Atlantis, Universe....which getting better, too bad it was cancelled early) The Expanse (moving up) Star Trek: Discovery (I'm enjoying the hell out of Discovery.....moving up). Battlestar Galactica ST: NG Space: Above and Beyond (Another premature Fox cancellation....Burn in Hell, Fox!) FireFly (needed more than 1 season...Burn in Hell, Fox!). The Orville (Rising with a bullet. Too bad won't see it again until late 2020 on Hulu) Star Trek - Original Dr. Who (original and new) Star Trek: Enterprise (could be higher if it had continued) Star Trek: Voyager (if 7 of 9 was in the 1st 3 seasons, the show would be higher). Farscape (I need to rewatch this, could be higher).
The first 2 seasons of The Expanse have some good moments but are generally a slog to get through especially when compared with the books. Season 3 really picks up -- I'm saving season 4 but it seems the influx of Amazon money has been a really good thing.
1. BSG 2. SG:Atlantis 3. SG1 4. Firefly Only watched the first season of The Expanse, it was okay, but didn't really grab me to be honest. Never watched the StarTrek stuff. Also, SG:Universe stinks. The premise was good but they ****ed it up.
Alright, so **** DS9 and B5, apparently I need to start watching The Expanse. And the correct answer so far is Firefly (+movie). Sadly not a lot of quality to choose from.
As a Sci-Fi nerd who is a fan of Golden Age sci-fi (1940's-1960's) and current sci-fi it's really interesting how the view of the future has really changed. In Golden Age sci-fi the future for the most part was seen with hope where humanity would overcome many of its problems. This is exemplified in the TOS and to a lesser degree in TNG. The Federation was Roddenberry's vision of the future where humanity lives up to its potential and the alien cultures are the ones who embody the failings of humanity. By DS9 especially after Roddenberry's death writers like Ronald D Moore starting tearing back the veil of the Federation and showing that it wasn't the idealized utopia and that even though it's 300 years in the future humans / and human like aliens are still human subject to all of the same failings that plague us now. He expanded on that idea in BSG where the characters, both humans and Cylons, were very dysfunctional with many of the problems arising from that dysfunction. This trend reached its peak in Stargate Universe where much of the story arc was driven by the very dysfunctional relationship between Colonel Young and Doctor Rush. I think in both BSG and Stargate Universe that started to hurt their effectiveness as shows. While the characters are thrown into very stressful and unexpected situations where they are fighting for their lives these are supposed to be very well trained and seasoned professionals. Commander Adama is a veteran command level military officer who was the hero of the last Cylon war. Colonel Young is a special forces company commander. In real life people like that already have a lot of leadership experience in handling both military and civilian personnel. They would also have extreme mission focus particularly when lives were at stake. It seems like an easy plot device to make them very vulnerable to their own and their subordinates' petty desires and jealousies. This is also why I think DS9 was superior to those later shows. While the officers in DS9 were flawed and had their own doubts they still behaved like officers and were very competent. From the very first episode Sisko had his doubts about serving in Starfleet and he ended up compromising some of his principles but he still did his job extremely well and there wasn't a doubt that his command was going to fall apart or be undermined by Worf scheming behind his back. They acted as professionals and the story was driven by professionals dealing with extraordinary circumstances and not interpersonal squabbles. DS9 struck the right balance of characters who had real depth but not so flawed as to question why anyone would give them a command in the first place.
BTW, if any of you play Elite Dangerous and were B5 fans, HCS Voicepacks allows you to fly with Mira Furlan (and many others from other sci-fi shows) : https://www.hcsvoicepacks.com/
I would hold off on the Expanse. There's like 9 story books planned, and it's on the 4th season. It was a lot nicer to binge or slog through while knowing it gets better. Needing to wait for more episodes like GoT diminishes it a bit for me. Definitely watch B5 before DS9. My impression is that if you watch DS9 first, you'll hate the cheesy fx from B5. It was already bad then, and I remember hating it and writing the show off. The wonders of reruns and not having anything else to watch back then... What made B5 a cult classic was that everything was planned from Season 1 to 4.5. What kept it from greatness was the low budget cheese and shaky acting of the first 15 episodes (the cheese it became an acquired taste afterwards). What made it worse was that half of the episodes were episodic, which could end up being a total waste of time (not all standalone eps were terrible though). You can't write all of them off, but you're rewarded for paying attention. For DS9, the first season is mostly forgettable up until they get a ship in Season 2. I guess character intros, like the tailor, would be the exception. It's one of those things where you can read the netflix descriptions after watching everything and not miss a beat because they were still trying to figure everything out. Battlestar Galactica was on fire for every season up until the last season and a half. The writers wrote themselves into corners and ended up wasting time with fluffy exposition and derails. It reminds me a lot of what Mr. Robot might become. With binge watching, people might be more forgiving for that disappointment of failing to meet expectations.
If you couldn't ever get into DS9 just watch "In the pale moonlight" episode. IMO it is maybe the greatest single standalone Sci-Fi episode of any television series. You don't need to know the characters names starting out, what is going on 5 or 6 seasons into the series and can just watch that episode by itself and keep up with everything. It also highlights why Garak is so revered as one of the greatest Sci-Fi characters maybe ever from DS9 fans. Hate the rest of the series if you want. I find it impossible to hate that episode by itself. TNG upholds the ideals of the Federation. DS9 pushes those ideals to their limits.
