Olajuwon the greatest player from the old guard vs. Francis the greatest player from the new guard. My question is will Francis surpass Olajuwon as the greatest player in Rockets history? Or is Olajuwon's legacy too great? And if so, how will he set himself apart? In my personal opinion, I think Olajuwon casts too great a shadow over Francis. Olajuwon redefined the center position. His rare combination of speed and size defy the typical center classifications. On the other hand, Francis is essentially a point guard with enormous talent in the same vain as Marbury. Sorry for the Marbury comparison, but I really think Marbury's game is the closest among active point guards in the league. He is not a true point guard in that he will never rival stockton's assists record. Nor will he ever play defense like Payton. I think that he could average double digit rebounds, and maybe even win the single season scoring title, but I don't feel he will ever be seen as a scorer equal to the likes of Iverson. His only means of setting himself apart from the others then is in number of championships. I think with the kind of staff the rockets have, he could win three before he retires. But the fact still remains that in terms of importance to the game, Olajuwon is still the clear winner in my mind.
Different styles, different players, different positions, different times. Comparing Francis to Dream is like comparing Isiah Thomas to Shaq. Who knows if either of their teams could have had that much success in different eras. In saying that Dream, in terms of importance of the game, is more important then Francis isn't fair considering Francis has only been in the league 2 years, and the Rockets are just now building a competitive team with the cap restrictions they have. You have to wait 7 to 10 years before you compare them. Comparing 17 year, Hall-of-Fame, championship center to a 2nd year star guard isn't a fair comparison at all.
Dream is in a class all himself. If Stevie ever leads the Rockets to back-to-back titles he could ascend towards Dream greatness but I honestly don't believe anyone will ever surpass Dream.
RM, You miss the point. I am not asking for a straight comparison whether Francis is "better" whatever that means. I am asking whether Francis's mark on the rockets will be greater than Olajuwon's. And if so, how? This means you can compare Francis to his peers, namely Iverson and such. Or really any comparison you want to come up with, number of championships, etc. I chose to use Hakeem's importance to the game to validate my claim that Francis won't surpass Olajuwon. You're free to make your own comparisons to validate your claim that he will, if that's what you believe. For example, it might be possible that Francis will average a triple double.
Ah, ok, I see what you mean. I don't think that Francis will have the same impact as Dream mainly because Dream was the first lead Houston to its first championships. No matter how many titles the Rockets win afterwards, those will always be "the first". Francis importance to the game compared to Hakeem's depends on what people outside of Houston think. Houston will alway consider Dream's impact more, even if Francis wins 5 championships. Sports tend to be more about power and size, thus PGs rarely get the pub that big men do. Isiah was just as successful in the playoffs as Dream was in ultimate results. The Pistons got to 3 straight Finals and won 2 championships and they are rarely talked about. Kobe wins his first title and they talk dynasty. No matter what Francis does, PGs and small guards rarely get the respect and recognition that they deserve.
With the salary cap, CBA, and the way teams wine and dine (so to speak) and throw money at free agents, just keeping Steve in a Rocket uniform may be difficult. Let's just pray for that before we get into impact comparisons.
i think it's completely possible, if not PROBABLE. HERE'S THE RUB... two things have to happen. 1) Win more championships than Dream did without #1, nothing else matters. not only must he win more championships than Dream, he must do so in dominating (@ his position) fashion. winners are often judged by the number of rings they have and the way they dominated their position (see: bill russell). 2) Bring the Rockets into the national forefront that's the one thing Dream never could do. i don't know if it's because of his nationality, quiet nature, the presence of michael jordan, the nba hype machine, or whatever, but the point is that the Rockets, IMO, were never accepted as media darlings. we were seen as slow, methodical, and downright painful to watch. i know, i don't agree either. but the public perception (national) was just that. if francis can ascend the rockets to "media darlings" along with winning more championships than hakeem, he'll be seen as having a greater impact on the organization and the city. i, personally, think he'll be able to do it. i think, in the national media's eyes, he'll surpass hakeem's impact. he's charismatic, flashy, talented, and a "good story" (from vancouver immaturity to houston maturity & championships). he can be the "rucker parker" with sense AND game. he can be an NBA poster boy. he's a good looking kid, too. and better believe that matters. could you imagine tyrone hill on NBA posters (outside of him with jordan's nuts in his mouth)? even if he had the talent, he wouldn't be promoted as much because he's ugly as all get out! steve is a different story. ultimately, it will be up to steve to 1) bring more championships 2) keep on being "stevie franchise" 3) let the NBA hype machine work for him.
For Francis to one up Dream. He has to be considered the best point to play the game during his era and be one of the top five to ever play the game and bring us some championships. Those expectations are too high even for Franchise. I will be happy if he just brings us a championship.
Olajuwon will not be remembered too greatly in 10-15 years in this town. Sure people will refer to him as a great center, but he was distant from the fans and he's playing in quite possibly the 3rd sport in the city behind football and baseball. Not a good combo. Francis will have to win at least one championship to be considered in the same breath as Olajuwon. I think back to Moses Malone and how great a center he was here, yet how many references to Moses do you see on this bbs? Sure he only played here for a short time, but during that time, he was among the best, most unstoppable players in the league. His points and reb averages during his last 2 years exceed Olajuwon's best years (I think). Sure he wasn't as great a defensive center, but he also didn't win the ultimate goal with us -- a championship. In 30 years, only a handful of people will care about Hakeem, Moses, and Francis (unless Francis does some serious improving between now and retirement which includes winning multiple championships). Another example : Calvin Murphy was a dynamite PG, but we all just remember him as the r****d behind the mic with the Eddie Munster afro and the neon suits that blind people can spot.
Francis is good and all right now, but he's not great. He still needs time to improve. RIGHT now, he is not a dominate player in this game. He has taken a similar role like Damon Stoudamire had in Toronto. Yes he's had much much more success but in order to even touch Hakeem Olajuwon's legacy he must accend to be one of the greatest 50 players to play in the NBA. Only time will tell if he can do it and he may very well. But I'd still take a Hakeem Olajuwon in his prime over Steve Francis right now.
As someone outside the city of Houston, I think I might be able to offer a little bit of an unbiased perspective here. Franchise is already a media darling. He is all over ESPN, on commercials, on the cover of NBA Live 2002, etc. He was last year and is now the Houston Rockets to the world outside of Houston. Shaq, Kobe, Vincanity, KG, and Franchise are the stars of the NBA according to the media and commercials. No one else. Inside Houston, Hakeem was still a factor last year. Outside Houston, he wasn't talked about except for when the trade discussions, etc happened. This is Steve's team and the world knows it.
Re: Perception that the Rockets were never "media darlings..." I agree completely. What is more, and maybe being a Rockets' fan living outside the Houston area at the time,I've heard this more, a very commonly voiced opinion (which still makes me see red) was that the Rockets were sort of consolation-prize champs, as we won during MJ's flirtation with baseball...The reasons I disagree with that perception are legion, as indeed are my reasons why Olajuwon is a better player than MJ was, with the exception of the Bulls having the rare ability to play 7 on 5...But I won't rant about that here...However, despite my attempts to educate the populace at large re: Dream, etc., that stigma remains a commonly held opinion. In terms of us having been a "boring" team, I think that reflects the first Championshp in particular, as that year defensive mugging and slow-down ball were endemic to the league, and we played the biggest media market in a Finals which were prime examples of the trend...The next year, watching Olajuwon destroy Robinson, Shaq, et al., well, if people found that boring, they'll never be happy without MJ or an MJ clone... So, to address the question about Dream vs. Stevie, I think it's too early to compare Stevie to the likes of Moses Malone, let alone possibly the most talented basketball player I have ever seen...I think Stevie's going to be great, and I'm looking forward to a fun ride, but I think it's a disservice to both Olajuwon and Stevie to try and compare their ultimate impacts on the...er...franchise. We are fans by definition, and our estimations of where Francis will lead this team are invariably going to be biased. However, until he wins anything, we have no more cause to paint Stevie with the same brush as Olajuwon than do fans of many other teams with bright young stars. Besides, by the very nature of the game, a dominant center will lead directly to rings a lot more often than will a dominant point guard... One last question....Steve Francis is good looking!?!!?!
Like a lot of you already said, Steve has to win at least one ring to be considered a Rocket great. He obviously has the talent, its just a matter of surrounding him with solid players. Also, Hakeem not only was an unbelievable b-ball player, he contributed to our community as well (if I'm not mistaken). If Steve can win championships and give back to the city then he MIGHT be able to surpass Hakeem's "greatest rocket of all" status. BUT personally I don't think he will because Hakeem totally revolutionized the center position; every center in the L jocks his moves and stylee. Steve hasn't really done anything that nobody's seen before...soooo i dunno.
Dude, what about the time he got ejected on a taunting technical. Has anybody ever seen that before, I don't think so. So he's already one-upping Hakeem after only two years. But seriously, I don't see anyway Francis will ever be considered to have had a greater impact on the frachise/city. The best he can ever hope for is to perhaps tie Hakeem in this respect-- and that's with like 4 or 5 rings--because as has already been stated Hakeem was the first to take us to the promised land and that sweet memory will never be topped. I see nothing but greatness for Steve in the future but I don't think he can ever top the Dream.
I think for Francis, or any Rocket for that matter, to be considered a greater Rocket than Olajuwon, he must do two things. 1) Win more than two championships, just two is not enough because they are not the first, as has been stated by many above. 2) Retire a Rocket. This is the one thing that Hakeem did not do, and Rudy has shown how much this means to many people.
Impossible for any Rocket even a guard of Franchise's quality and talent to come close to the level of contribution and significance that Hakeem has poured into the franchise and the city. This guy started from college and straight into the hometown franchise. Something like 17 unbelievable years! I mean I have the utmost respect for Francis, Rudy T. and all the other greats from Houston but frankly, I can't see how they would match the impact of Hakeem even if they banded together. This guy virtually gave Houstonians a sporting pride and identity that can only be vindicated by two championship titles. Not only that he did it with class, talent and humbleness that is unmatched in today's very cynical times. Sure, Hakeem has his faults but in the magnitude and luminescence of his endeavours and acheivements, they are like pitiful moths around a great sun.
I disagree slightly on this one. True, to us (Houstonians and basketball fans) he is the r****d behind the mic. But to the basketball world in general, he is seen as a pioneer in the league. He was the original "little guy in a big man's game". He made it possible for guys like Michael Adams, Spud Webb and Muggsy Bogues to realize that they too can make it in the NBA. It was this reputation that helped get Murphy elected to the HOF. I don't think he could have made it on stats alone. He ranks 45th all time in scoring, and other than free throw percentage, he isn't in the top 50 in any other category.
