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[FoxSports.com]- Bush or Young? Let's Settle This Debate

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by askball, Jan 10, 2006.

  1. askball

    askball Member

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    http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5234752

    The Texans are certainly sitting pretty now, aren't they?

    The league has been abuzz about Reggie Bush for months. Now, as if to make up for lost time, the buzz about Vince Young is deafening. Until last Wednesday, the debate for the Texans was whether they should take Bush or trade down for players at positions where they really needed help, like Ohio State linebacker A.J. Hawk or Virginia left tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson.
    But now there's a new layer to the debate: Vince or Reggie?

    Reggie Bush is a known quantity. It's much easier to project a college running back to the NFL than a college quarterback, particularly a quarterback such as Vince Young. Bush was on the radar screen as a possible early entrant and first-round pick even before this season. Young flew up the draft boards — at least the media's, if not the ones on NFL general managers' walls — on the strength of one phenomenal game. If the Texans want the best player they can find with the top pick, Bush is still the best choice. One great game isn't enough to change that.

    Taking Young instead of Bush with the first pick would represent a monumental risk for the Texans. The term that has attached itself to Bush is "can't-miss prospect." It's true that running back is far from the top in the list of the Texans' needs. But they would take Bush because they are so certain that, barring injury, he will be one of the best players at his position. Quarterback isn't high on the list of needs either — depending on your opinion of David Carr, it is a position that could be improved but not one that is holding back the team — so the Texans would have to be as certain about Young as they are about Bush.

    Young's potential is unprecedented. If his passing could catch up to his running, he could be the greatest quarterback in the history of the NFL. But that might never happen, and he could be merely another Kordell Stewart.

    Young needs a lot of work to make it in the NFL. He's a great football player, and a great quarterback, but his strengths made up for the deficiencies in his game at the college level in ways that they won't at the pro level. His strengths are his tremendous athleticism, as expressed in his running ability that might be better than Michael Vick's, and his calmness and consequent ability to know what's going on everywhere on the field.

    Vince Young running is a thing of beauty. When Vick runs, it's exciting, because he is always capable of scoring. But Young seems to glide effortlessly down the field, his long strides spiriting him past the defense much faster than they seem. He has a truly extraordinary feel for where defenders are and where they're coming from, and he can avoid them so deftly that they end up looking silly. That also allows him to avoid hard head-on hits — the kind of hits that get quarterbacks injured. He sheds tacklers effortlessly because of his great balance and body control, and when he gets tackled he tends to get pulled down rather than knocked down.

    Because of his preternatural athleticism, defenses play Young differently than they would a Matt Leinart. They put a spy on him, thereby taking a guy out of coverage; when he drifts toward scrambling, they pursue him more vigorously than they would other players. That all causes a lot of big holes in the coverage all over the field for his receivers to plant themselves in, and his field awareness allows him to find them and hit them in those holes. Because they're so open so much of the time, he doesn't have to be as accurate or as strong-armed with a lot of his big throws.

    To be sure, he throws a lot of good, quick, NFL-style passes, but they aren't his bread and butter, and they're not as consistently successful. It's no coincidence that the offense stalled out in the red zone a few times in the Rose Bowl, and that all the Texas touchdowns were on the ground. Open spaces in the defense don't appear as readily, and they aren't as big, when the field is compressed in the red zone. So Young can't lob those really gorgeous passes to wide open receivers like he does between the 20s.

    Most of Young's highlight-reel passes are rainbows to uncovered receivers that don't necessarily demonstrate accuracy or a strong arm. That's not to say that they're passes that any quarterback could make. It's only because he's Vince Young that he can be scrambling to his right and a receiver can be open all the way across the field to his left after the defense slackened its discipline to defend the scramble. And on top of that, it's an entirely different skill that he is able to find that receiver back to the left, know how open he is, know that he'll still be open when a pass gets to him, and then throw it to him accurately. That is an extremely potent and rare combination. But it's not necessarily one that will be as effective in the NFL.

    NFL defenses won't have the same response to Young's scrambling as college defenses. For one thing, they've kind of caught up to Vick at this point, and so they have a head start on Young, who's similar at least as far as the defensive scheme required. But more than that, the reason he's so dangerous in college football is because he's head and shoulders better than any athlete on any defense he's seen all season, with maybe one exception per very good team. He will still be an upper-echelon athlete in the NFL, but the gap won't be as wide.

    His runs won't be so consistently effective, and they won't be so devastating. NFL defenses won't have to game-plan as hard against them, and defenders won't overcommit as much to them. NFL defensive players are also a lot more experienced, and probably "football smarter" than college defensive players, so they will tend to keep to their coverage and backside responsibilities better even when Young is scrambling in the pocket. All of that means that he won't find those huge open spaces with receivers in them. He will have to throw zippier, more accurate passes. Maybe not as zippy and accurate as a Leinart will, but still better than most of the passes he threw in college.

    There's no reason to think he can't do this. He's shown definite improvement as a passer every year, and his work ethic is famous. But if the Texans tried to take Young as is and play him, they would find little success. It's well known that his mechanics are poor, and he almost never ran an NFL-style dropback at Texas. There is certainly no guarantee that he will one day be a Pro Bowl-caliber passer — which is what you expect if you draft him with the first overall pick. The jury is still out on Vick as a passer, and while he and Young are not identical, that should be enough to make the Texans wonder.

    Not only is Young a risky pick, drafting him would mark a major overhaul for the Texans. A team can make use of more than one good running back — Denver does it every year — but only one quarterback. Drafting Young means giving up on Carr. But Young needs time to develop as an NFL quarterback, meaning Houston would have to keep Carr until Young was ready, with everyone knowing that Carr would then be released, or release Carr and sign a veteran free-agent seat filler. They would have to make that decision by the Pro Bowl, when Carr becomes a free agent unless the Texans pick up his option.

    But that isn't the case with running backs, particularly with Bush and Domanick Davis. Each year, Davis has missed at least one game and been slowed in others due to injury, and Bush is a smaller back who benefits from sharing the rushing duties. Not only that, both Davis and Bush are excellent receivers out of the backfield, so they could line up together in creative formations, helping to bolster the Texans' thin wide receiver corps. The Texans could also move backup running back Jonathan Wells, a good football player but their worst pure runner, to fullback — a la Mike Anderson in Denver in 2004. With Broncos offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak the likely choice as the Texans' next head coach, Houston would be poised to imitate Denver's annual rushing excellence.

    That doesn't mean the Texans need a running back like Bush, and in the short term they would improve more by trading down and drafting a player who, although he might not be as good as Bush, would fill a position that is currently a weakness. Or they could take Bush because he is the "best player available," which happens to be a lot easier to do when the best player is a running back, not a quarterback. Drafting Bush would not force the Houston front office's hand the same way drafting Young would.

    The first pick is not for taking gambles. Vince Young, at this stage of his development, is a gamble. The upside is there, and it is tremendous, but so is the risk that the Texans would be right back here five years from now — watching the David Carr-led Raiders challenge the Reggie Bush-led Saints in Super Bowl XLV while trying to decide whom they should take with the top pick to replace Vince Young.
     
  2. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Contributing Member

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    Maybe whoever wrote this should go pop the tape in the film room again because they are flat out wrong. Vince maybe had one or two lob passes in the rose bowl, and sure he threw a few jump ball type passes this season, but so do all NFL quarterbacks with tall wide receivers on their team. The vast majority of his passes were not "lobs." I don't mind someone saying take Bush, but for a well known media site to write an article with flat out erroneous information is irreprehensible and wrong.
     
  3. IC2000

    IC2000 Contributing Member

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    He never said anything you just corrected he did however say that most of his highlight reel passes were lobs
     
  4. Dave2000

    Dave2000 Contributing Member

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    i never thought about that comparison with Kordell Stewart. He was awesome in his days then just went downhill. Is he even in the league anymore?

    Interesting enough, I have a coworker that use to work at Compaq and worked with a someone name Curvin Richards, backup running back to Emmitt Smith 91-93. Apparently he is famous for fumbling 2 carries in the last regular season game of the 93 season before they eventually became Super Bowl Champs for the second time.
     
  5. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Contributing Member

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    If throwing deep is considered a lob then so be it, but he throws the deep ball no different than any other quarterback. I don't consider those lob passes. A lob pass was like that pass late versus USC(across the field) to Thomas where it really was a lob, and there was another one to DT and I think one to Bo Scaife in last year's rose bowl. If those are his "highlight reel passes" it is only because he only throws them when teams look like they have him stopped in his tracks for good. And one or two of them per game at worst does not="majority of highlight reel passes."

    It's still not accurate on the writer's part.
     
  6. IC2000

    IC2000 Contributing Member

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    They are both great players , I want Bush. We will see what happens in the future. I like the Kordell Stewart Comparison, they have really similar styles. Vince is better with his feet though. We have never seen anyone like Bush. He could turn out like sanders, sayers,LT, metcalf. Who knows. I think in the end the UT/VY lovers will win and get Young on the Texans.
     
  7. chow_yun_fat

    chow_yun_fat Contributing Member

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    i want bush 2...but i bet we're gonna get vy.
     
  8. mogrod

    mogrod Contributing Member

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    If yall want to see something interesting, look at the poll towards the bottom of the page.

    --------------------------------------------------------
    If you were the Texans and both players went pro, who would you take?

    46674 Votes
    55% - Reggie Bush
    45% - Vince Young
    --------------------------------------------------------
     
  9. gr8-1

    gr8-1 Contributing Member

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    there's no way the Texans will take Young. And, UT fans have no effect on what the Texans will do.
     
  10. pariah

    pariah Contributing Member

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    Dave 2000,

    Swervin' Curvin - an absoulute stud. We went to High School (La Porte) together. He had some minor problems holding onto the ball even back then though. I remember a HS playoff game at Rice when The LP Bulldogs lost a playoff game against Stratford when Curvin lost the ball near or just beyond the goal line (THE FREAKING GROUND CAN'T CAUSE A FUMBLE! - therapy doesn't always work).

    sorry, I hadn't thought of Curvin in a while. He was a fantastic rb, but he had some costly drops throughout his football career.


    Back on track - I hope Vince has a much more celebrated career than did Stewart. Slash only dreams of holding the skills that Vince has...Vince has twice the skills than did Stewart. I find the Randall Cunningham a much more accurate parrallel. Vick is too en vogue as a comparison to me.

    See one Travis, not Derrick, Johnson if you need further proof of this fact. SA Cass...ass and cass - that rhymes...coincident?
     
    #10 pariah, Jan 10, 2006
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2006
  11. Agent27

    Agent27 Member

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    Amen! The organization would really have to have piss poor management to let a group of people wearing ____________ colored glasses tell them what to do.

    Fact is that most UT fans overvalue Vince Young. Not that he isn't a great player and can't be one at the next level, just that it natural for them to think more highly of one of their own.

    I'm sure that Oregon fans though that Akili Smith would be a great QB and that Washington State fans though that Ryan Leaf was better than Peyton Manning.

    I'm not saying that VY will end up like those two, I don't think he will. I'm just illustrating that college loyalties make rational people unrationally biased.

    The point of the article is Bush is a pretty sure bet and that there is a degree of risk with VY. And you really can't argue with that.
     
  12. Aceshigh7

    Aceshigh7 Contributing Member

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    Yea, but that's nationally. Most of the impartial football fans around the country think we should trade down and not pick Young or Bush.

    I think among Houston area fans, Vince Young has got to be the favored player. I just hope the Texans listen to fan sentiment. I definitely don't want us to miss out on Vince Young. We already have a great running back in Davis. We need a great QB, and Young can be the best.
     
  13. IC2000

    IC2000 Contributing Member

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    :eek:
     
  14. halfbreed

    halfbreed Contributing Member

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    976 yards on 230 carries ain't too shabby. Now if you're talking durability, that is indeed a different story. However, I have a feeling Reggie Bush isn't the most durable of backs.
     
  15. Cire

    Cire Contributing Member

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    The Texans are in a damn good situation to be in. But I vote Vince Young. I am not sold on Carr. It could be a huge mistake to keep Carr. QBs don't fall out of trees, we could be stuck with him or another, as the coaches like to call them, unproven QB and Reggie Bush. Carr is is young and his window is closing quick. VY is young and will immediately bring excitement.
     
  16. Cohen

    Cohen Contributing Member

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    Well ok then.
     
  17. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

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    i actually thought that was a pretty good article; one of the more accurate, in depth, and honest looks at VY's game and how it may or may not translate into the NFL.
     
  18. jtotheb

    jtotheb Contributing Member

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    And thank goodness for that...

    I have to admit, after watching the Rose Bowl I really wanted VY too. But, once you get past the well-deserved hype from that game...it just seems to make more sense to draft Bush or trade the pick. I hope that we never draft a player just so we won't play against them. That's chicken-sh** . If the Kubiak regime comes in here and helps to make the right decisions, it won't matter. And if that means VY is a Texan, then I'm a VY fan. If the Texans don't draft VY and he becomes the next coming of Christ himself, then I'm going to hell because I'll still be a Texan fan.
     
  19. Harrisment

    Harrisment Member

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    Good post. :)
     
  20. rhester

    rhester Contributing Member

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    This is why teams make draft mistakes.

    Few of Young's highlight reel passes went to open receivers (watch the Michigan game, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St. , USC game) Like nobody covered any of Texas receivers all year. Did anyone actually watch the games?

    The Texans need a major overhaul period. Did we just finish 8-8?

    The David Carr led Raiders will play the Reggie Bush led Saints in the Super Bowl the same year Rice and the University of Houston play for the BCS national championship.

    I think everyone should watch the games- Whether the Texans draft VY or not he had a very good year passing. Why can't it stand for what it is. He is a gifted passer.

    All the experts that say he has a bad motion are right, it is unorthodox. All the experts that say he 'floats' rainbows' out to wide open receivers are crazy.

    Does his passing need to be dissed because he is a great runner?

    What's with that?

    Let's draft Bush and get it over with. :(
     

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