Screw, Pippen! I don't think he sucks (in fact, I don't think anyone this thread said anything to that effect), but he treated my Rockets like crap, so can I please just hate him in peace? Thanks.
If you were startubg work in a place you weren't sure you would be happy, would you committ yourself for several years? Don't tell me it wasn't his fault cause he was the one who agreed on the terms on his contract.....
Pippen may have "had" good basketball skills but his personality sucks! The guy seriously needed to have the **** kicked outta him by Barkley after what he said about him.
David S - There are some good old threads concerning the Pippen was not used right in Houston argument specifically and the Rudy doesn't know how to coach SF's generally. In them, I provided solid statistical arguments against this theory (the same one you are supporting). I will try and look them up when I have some time (as search function doesn't work right now). The arguments surround 3 pointer attempts, total shot attempts, look at stats overall. In essence, it is my belief that Pippen was not misused in Houston by anyone. He didn't take significantly more 3 pointers and he had the ball in his hands a very very large % of the time, playing point forward. His problems started and ended with his attitude, as they always have (see playoff series in Chicago without Jordan).
Pippen not fitting in has NOTHING to do with why people hate him. His attitude is the reason. First of all I don't buy the "if you had a job and didn't fit in you would be upset, he didn't fit", if he is a great player, great players adjust. Period. Do you think that Michael Jordan, or Charles Barkley or Larry Bird would complain that they don't fit a team? They would adjust to the team. <b> hated our offensive during those years. It was slower than the Jazz. But, Pip was right about Charles. Jordan knew it, Pippen knew it. Some people say that Pip shouldn't talk about someone else game if his own game wasn't very good. But Charles game COULD flourish in the Rockets system in 1999 (he got the ball all the time). Pippens game could NOT flourish because the Rockets system at the time wasn't based on motion; like Pip works best in. By the way, most fans are fickle. If you bring them wins, all sins are forgiving.</b> That's BS, Jordan said that he never said that, he called Barkley house himself shortly after Pippen said that and told Barkley he didnt' say that, so that doesn't hold water. How could Jordan "know" that when he himself said he never said or believed that? And this garbage about Pippen, Pippen could have asked to be traded, the Rockets asked him if he wanted to be traded, Barkley himself asked Pippen on the golf course if he wanted to be traded and Pippen said no. So how is that being fickley when the guy himself said he DIDN'T want to be traded before stabbing Barkley in the back and lying that Jordan said something that he didn't say? I mean it's funny how people defend Pippen by saying "Pippen was right about Charles", when Barkley did something Pippen couldn't do, carry a franchise on his back practically by himself for 13 years before coming to Houston and adjusting to Houston's style. Phoenix game was a motion offense, Houston's is a low post offense, yet Barkley adjusted. Nothing Pippen said was "right" about Barkley because Pippen never has done anything without Jordan. That's something everybody knows.
I haven't heard ONE person blame Pippen for the Rockets woes, not one person. In fact people were willing to give Pippen the benefit of the doubt and see if he had a strong year his 2nd year on Houston. You make it like Houston was some evil organization that screwed up Pippen's ability to play, the Rockets were building a running team for the following year, why do you think they traded for Francis and signed Shandon Anderson, and both deal went down before Pippen was traded. Francis and Anderson, running team. The Rockets seriously considered a deal that would have sent Hakeem to Toronto for Christie and other deal that likely would have ended up being Odom and another slashing player. Trading Hakeem would have completely dismantled the low post game, heck just getting Francis and Shandon along with Cat and paring them with Pippen would have forced the team into a running team. But instead of making things work Pippen decided to b*tch his way out of Houston. Pippen said his biggest regret was coming to Houston, I say Houston's biggest regret was signing that sorry @ss crybaby. I wish he would have sat out, it would have shown how much of a coward he is. Instead of being a "great" player and team player and making things work he goes off and hides and back down. Typical of Pippen. But karma worked itself out, the Rockets got a young great young team and Pippen will always be remembered as the guy who couldn't cut it without Michael Jordan, and was part of one of the biggest choke jobs in Western Conference Finals history. What a legacy!
So, I ask you, Jordan never said that the reason that Barkley will never win a ring is because he's lazy? He never said that? Huh? Ok, so he didn't call him fat and lazy. But, in the end it's the same thing.
Ah, yes. The Rockets gave him the benefit of the doubt. It didn't work out. So, move on. Rocket the evil org? No. But, the fans are quick to judge. They blame him for leaving. But, it's just hurt feelings on the fans. So, it's the fans that need the "boo-hoo" napkin. Ok, IC. You judge Pippen legacy on what he has done AFTER he left the Rockets, instead of this whole career. I see how you think...sigh.... Lets see, 16 years in the league and nothing to show for it. We know where you feelings start and end. In 1999. Oh, and by the way, I hope someone judges you that way one day. Also, if you think that people outside of Houston hate Pippen the same way that Rocket fans do then you need to think again. Only in Houston do fans boo him when he has the ball. Orlando doesn't boo Shaq when he comes to town. It's all about the hurt feelings. Boo hoo!
You could say that about most players. Name one player in the 90's that would have been the leader over Jordan teams.
By the way, do you think that "running team" would have presented itself in 1999/00? Heck, it's 2003, and we still have players walking the ball up the court taking their sweet time. Sure, we have a more up tempo team than 1999. But, it's taken 4 years just to get Rudy to implement just this amount of change. Mr. Conservative Rudy. Tupper Turtle. Slow, slow, slow...
I don't like Pippen because he's a real b*stard off the court. From his unpaid childsupport and stiffing waiters on tips (when you make 16 million a year...), to his constant fingerpointing for the blame of his team's woes. It didn't happen only in Houston, it happened when Jordan was gone, and a couple years ago. I admire his defensive ability, his great court vision, and his smooth ballhandling, but as a person or a role model, he's one heck of a character...
i liked pippen back then, i started disliking him when he left the rockets or when he was with the rockets for some reason....i just dont know......
This is a very interesting thread. I never was a big Pippen fan but I will agree that the offense the Rockets were running wasn't suited to him. I also agree that Barkley was a much bigger problem. Does anyone remember in that season when Barkley said his New Year's Resolution would be to stop drinking and then two months later he said that it didn't help him that much so he was off the wagon again. Typical Barkley. That being said, Pippen is the same guy who didn't go in the game in 1994 in the Bulls' series against the Knicks for the final play because he wasn't getting the ball. Nuff said about Pippen.
Rudy claimed he tried more things, put in more plays etc etc etc for Pippen and Pippen just would not respond. I tend to believe Rudy who does not bad mouth players, current or past. Just remember, Pippen spelled backwards is neppip!
I can see where being a consistent low post scorer, leading the team in rebounding, and dishing out 5.57 assist per game in only 36.3 minutes, not to mention signing for the minimum so that Snottie could get his fat contract was such a huge problem. No wonder Quitten called him fat and lazy.
DavidS, Please don't portrait Pippen (or any professional athlete, for that matter) as some poor old man who doesn't like his job and gets bashed by his dislike of the job. Pippen makes millions of dollars for "the job he hates." The job description for his multi-million-dollar job includes being judge by the fans. It's OUR money he's spending. Besides, you are defending his basketball game. Nobody hates him because of his game. It's his character as a PERSON that is loathesome. Many people have already brought out examples of his sorry personality. I didn't like him even before the 1994 Knicks game incident. I hated him after that, not to mention all the anecdotes of his bad attitude towards other human beings. I almost quit being a Rockets fan when he became a Rocket. My feeling about his way of leaving is beyond human language.
That's not what I hear... When people emotions get involved, it skews everything else. Thus, people will say, "He can't play w/out Jordan," or "He's overrated, look at his career now," or "He sucks, look at his stats now" etc, etc... That seems like less of a character bash, but more of a game bash. They are trying to "hurt" Pip because of the hurt he caused to Rox fans. I don't see any parity on this. Just pure irrational emotion. I agree w/Pip's point of view in 1999, although I don't agree w/his method. But, he's being blamed for everything. Part of the problem was that Hakeem was still in charge (w/his old knees), same with Charles, and Rudy was too conservative to make changes (or to listen to any other point of view). Rudy would have never accepted the "Jordan method" of training. It was too strict for him. Rudy choses the "I'm ok, you're ok" nice guy method. So, anything that Pip suggested would have gotten the response from Rudy, "Well, yeah...ok, we'll see. I'll talk to the guys. We'll talk about it...." Weeks later the same thing...Tuper turtle Rudy....
I agree that people do say things like "Pippen sux." But that is not the REASON why they hate him. It's his personality. It is debatable whether it was his or Rudy's fault that he didn't play well in Houston. It is debatable whether he deserves to be listed among the 50 greatest. Many have already pointed out his stats were actually better in Houston than in Portland, and that he has yet shown that he could do well without Jordan. I tend to agree with them. But let's grant these accusations about his game are all tinted by emotion. The point is, the hatred of him is rooted from who he is, not how he plays basketball.
what EXACTLY did pippen say about barkley? cause i dont remember. i just remember everyone was pissed off after that...
