Finally JVG spoke out about the officiating...

Like I said in another thread about officiating:

03-22-2004 08:10 AM

Yao is getting mugged many nights - two hands in his back, holding, hacking, shoving him when he shoots. Team needs to address this with league.......how many game tapes do you want to see? Enough is enough. He also needs to figure out how to avoid the ticky tack reach in and over the back fouls that take him out of the game.

Regarding Tweedledumb and Tweedledumb2, they need to quit whining - just shut up and play. The more they complain the worse the calls are going to be. As an earlier poster said, if they play hard and smart (don't know if that's possible), and quit crying on EVERY call, the calls will start to balance out. Even I'm tired of watching them complain

D R

 

GLAD to hear JVG talkign about it. ALso, what Yao said was hilarious. It is so ture!

Lets go ROx!!!

 

Well, I'm glad JVG finally said something. But, why not do it in the game every once in awhile and risk picking up that technical. Sometimes, it really is worth it to let the refs know that you won't take their crap.

I can understand why Shaq often gets reffed differently because of his size and power game, but why is it such a challenge for the zebras to call it down the middle with Yao? I mean, the guy is not that tall that a ref can't see the hacks and shoves he gets. Does he still have to prove he's a superstar (which would be complete B.S.). Does Yao have to be more gregarious with the refs or even intimidate them a little? Do the refs assume he's like Shawn Bradley and easily gets pushed around? I'm really confused why Yao doesn't get the calls.

 

Echoing the comments on this thread . . . about frickin' time.

Van Gundy is a solid coach, but he's sometimes too old school. He calls out Steve Francis in public forums for being a whiner. On several occasions, he's said publicly that the Rockets need to stop complaining about calls and get back on defense. That's true, but you tell your guys that in practice. You don't share those thoughts with the public. Doing that just gives the Refs the backup they need to freely ignore fouls on Francis and Mobley and Yao. They can basically say to themselves that even their own coach thinks they're just a bunch of whiners.

Phil Jackson never calls out his own players like that. Instead, he always complains about how his stars don't get the foul calls, particularly Shaq. He complains before games, he complains during games, he complains after games.

About time Van Gundy got with the program and started making his support for his players known. And Yao is an easy person to start with because he's uncontroversial, whereas Steve is HATED by the Refs and viewed as a whiner and a hot head with all his technical fouls.

I hope it changes things, but it might take until next season to have a real effect. I'm sure the League will have a training session going over how to officiate Yao the way they do with Shaq. Yao is the second hardest player to officiate for sure.

 

It is not only bad officiating on Yao, but on the whole team! 33-11 is ridiculous. And the situation was same for the last few games.
Now, CD must send the tapes, and ask Sterns to suspend the crook refs. Push for suspension!

 

Even though Yao's game isn't like Shaq's... he'll still be faced with the same inconsistency from the refs.

Why?

Because when Yao gets good position, its over... and that's from 10 feet in. Referees hear defenders say, "what can I do?" when the rare occasion arises that they get a foul called on them for fighting for position... because they literally can't do anything once they let Yao catch it.

Its similiar for Shaq, but he has no range. Thus, when Shaq gets good position, he has to be near the basket... and teams fight and claw to keep him from doing that, and the refs give them the benefit of the doubt because they want teams to have a fighting chance against a dominant player.

With Yao, they are trying to use the same logic... "we should let them fight for the position, because how else will a team stop him?"

The refs need to realize that he's something that the NBA has never seen before... but if the rules are going to be what they are, they must stay the same and apply to Yao as well. If they want to change the rules, fine... (as they did with Wilt, Kareem, and now Shaq)... but for the time being, nobody should be able to deny Yao good position without fouling him... he's just too strong.

 

Can we find out who Yao's favourite wrestler is..... i'm guessing he's mad for RVD or maybe Edge.... and part me hopes he likes the work Jericho

 

the thing is shaq is allowed to get hit more than most because he dishes it out as well. he gets to knock people down and just generally smash into them all game so if they hit him on the wrist as he dunks or shove him fighting for position sometimes the refs let it slide. but for the most part, yao does not bowl people over (and when he does he gets offensive fouls) or punish them all game. all he is is really big and thus hard to move even w/o punishing people but for some reason that gives defenders carte blanche to do what they want.

the number of times ratliff just blatantly shoved yao as he was receiving the ball or trying to get position was ridiculous. and that doesn't even count the fouls while trying to dunk and other things.

i just don't get it.

as for the rockets overall, 33-11 a day after 34-13 or something like that is ridiculous.

 

Officiating in the NBA is not "fair" - and will probably never be. It's like in baseball when someone is talking about an umpire's strike zone. It SHOULD BE baseballs' strike zone, a standard developed by MLB............but noooooooooo, it varies by umpire. And what about the strike zone Greg Maddux is given vs. other "less elite" pitchers. It's really no different in the NBA.

The difference is that officiating can determine the outcome in basketball, probably more than any other sport. JVG is doing the right thing here. He's walking on a razor blade but his mantra is that the players need to play, not get caught up with the officiating, and let him do their bidding with the NBA. What I do know is that Cat and SF3's incessant whining will only make it harder on them and their teammates. And Cato isn't far behind them. It just goads the officials into stacking the deck even more severely against the Rox.

It's all a matter of maturity, poise, and learning how to win. Sometime we are sloooooow luhners

D R

 

Since December, at least, I called for the pontificator, JVG, to open his mouth about the treatment of Yao. In every Dallas game the treatment has been similar.

 

What makes you think he doesn't complain to the refs during games? He's not the emotional Rudy T type of guy that jumps out on the court at every call against him. How would you know that everytime he talks to the refs, he's not complaining about calls?

For our immature team, do you think a head coach like ours who doesn't want our players to whine much, it's better for him to be whiny to the officials also? They would follow the leader and would whine even more.

On a side note, does anybody think Cat and Stevies constant whining have something to do with Rudy rubbing off on them?

 

Ratliff speaks:

"He's 8-feet tall, man," Ratliff said. "I gotta do everything I can against him. He probably outweighs me by 100 pounds. I just gotta fight him, keep him off the box and just play him aggressive. That don't bother me none."

Let's break this down:

"He's 8-feet tall, man,"

Ok, you're intimidated. I understand. What do you plan to do about it?

"I gotta do everything I can against him."

Oh, I see. So your plan is to foul and play dirty knowing that the ref's won't give Yao those types of fouls. Everybody (the Miami heat especially come to mind) plays Yao the same: Put both hands in the back and push, push, push. Well Theo, THAT'S ILLEGAL. I mean, there are rules for a reason: YOU CANNOT DO "everything you can"! Good grief.

"He probably outweighs me by 100 pounds."

Is this justification for illegalities?

"I just gotta fight him, keep him off the box and just play him aggressive."

Hrmmmm. WWF Yao says. Not surprising when the defense says it is "fighting" you.

"That don't bother me none."

Right. But it bothers the fans, and anyone else who knows how basketball is supposed to be. However, if I was Ratliff I would say the same thing. If the ref's aren't calling it, why not foul like it's "jailhouse rules"?

I'm ranting I know. But each game this gets more ridiculous. The game plan is "beat up on Yao." Then, when he gets aggressive they call a charge. I wonder if we would see more slams if Yao could avoid those ticky-tack fouls. Perhaps all the hook shots are a product of the refereeing...

Well, it's bothered me a lot. I don't like dirty basketball. The game is slowing down enough as it is. If I cannot even see the fluid athleticism that makes basketball great (I shouldn't feel like I'm watching football...) then watching it becomes an exercise in futility...

For the record, it's the same for Francis. Yeah, sometimes he tries to hard to draw the foul - but it works a lot too, if only he could get the call. Picture Kobe getting thwacked like Francis did in that Sacto game - think he'd get the call?

--rhad

 

Don't miss the other side of the coin...look what JVG said in the same article:

"We're known as a complaining, whining group by officials," Van Gundy said. "More than one official has mentioned it. It's not new and it affects the game. They knew exactly what was said last night on TV, and it has an impact.

"We've made no progress with being able to take the good with the bad as far as officials, and I'm not speaking about Steve, I'm speaking of us as a group."

For the Rockets to be known as a "whining group" is a very bad sign and might be very hard to change (although Dallas made a lot of progress from 2 years ago). Also, JVG is saying that the whining definitely IS negatively impacting the outcome of Rocket games.

There is a fine line to be walked: never complain and the officials know they can call fouls on you all day long and never receive scrutiny; complain all the time and people grow accustom to your complaining.

The key is to complain about the fouls that inhibit your team style of play and contribute to losses in the long term. To do this a player needs to be able to retain some self control not to get emotionally dominated by the heat of the moment AND must know what calls are significant over the long term. As the teams leaders Steve has not shown the self control and Yao has not show the willingness to get involved with the politics of officiating. I think this may change with time as he has shown himself capable of dealing with a complex socio-political environment in him transition to an NBA player and all the media attention.

 

I dont wanna be a Lakers or Kings fan whining about officiating, but damn...I know everyone else saw the same thing I saw. Not just with Yao, the whole team on a whole doesn't get any calls, though they dont help the situation with their "I never commited a foul in my career" stunts they pull on the refs.

 

How many times do you think JVG will have to tell the players in order for them to really listen? Do you think telling them in practice is enough? Try to put yourself in JVG's shoes.

As an example: Throughout the year, you see JVG during games motioning steve to bring the ball up quicker every time. How many times do you think he was told in practice to bring the ball up quicker? So many times I noticed, for the first second or two, Stevie would take his time bringing the ball up, but when he sees JVG motioning to bring it up faster, he would hurry up. What does that tell you?

 

What do fans from other teams think? Clearly to a bunhc of homers these games are being called poorly.

 

A very good question. I wonder how non biased fans feel about this who have seen the last 3 games? Especially the GS game.