[Feigen] Bonzi undecided, set to meet with Rockets on Tuesday (Hayes Mention)

Anyone else want to guess what the Rockets are going to say?

My guess is that they basically tell Bonzi they love him but are unable to offer him any more money this year, but if he stays they will take care of him next year.

I think they will tell him they need the full MLE to fill out the Roster, and yes they love him, but do to all the issues on both sides last year, they want to see how he does under Adelman before making a long term committment.

That would be my guess.

DD

 

I think you've stated the obvious. It's also obvious to me Bonzi will opt out and go elsewhere. It would be idiotic for him not to opt out seeing as this summer will be his last chance get any sort of multi-year deal with for real $$$.

 

It will surprise me to see Bonzo get a 'decent' sized offer til he proves himself again.

 

You know sometimes the obvious is not so obvious to everyone.

 

Obviously.
-- Dirk Nowitski

 

Well if the obvious was obvious to everyone, obviously everyone would be obvious.

 

I don't think it is obvious Bonzi will opt out.

How many teams would be willing to offer him the full MLE, considering the season he just came out of (coming off a good season, he only got half the MLE from us)?

IMO, he would want to come back, in shape w/ guaranteed minutes and get more next off season

 

He only has $2MM guaranteed now. Someone out there will guaranteed him $5MM-$10MM over 2-3 years. Bonzi has learned how valuable "a bird in the hand" is. Next summer, Fatzi will be 32 years old before the 08/09 season starts. It's now or never.

 

Who and why?

No one offered him that coming off his last season in Sac. The best he got was the $5 mil/2 year offer from us. Why would someone give him more coming off a horrible season where he was out of shape, chronically injured and then quit on the team?

IMHO, if he opts out, he may be playing golf w/ Latrell next year.

 

The best he got was $38MM/5yrs from the Kings and he turned that down. No other team bothered with him because the Kings offer was so high. By the time they dumped him and gave the MLE to someone else, the FA money was completely gone and he was stuck. Poor Fatzi.

 

Hayes played in 3 games against SA. He missed the first game of the year against them. In the second game, alongside Yao, Hayes helped hold Duncan to 14 points in 4 for 13 shooting. In the remaining 2 games, Hayes came off the bench in very limited minutes while Deke and Juwan started and gave up 37 and 23 points to Duncan. One game Hayes played ~10 minutes (a loss), the other game Hayes played ~18 minutes(a win) in a reserve role. In the first game, in which Hayes did not play, Juwan started alongside Yao and Duncan scored 19. So, Duncan scored 19 in the game Hayes didn't play and Duncan scored 37 and 26 in two games Hayes did play but Hayes played a reserve role in. So, the game Hayes started and played major minutes alongside Yao just happened to be Duncan's worst game, while the games where Hayes did not start and played limited minutes or no minutes were by far Duncan's best outings.

Hayes played in 4 games against Minny. In the first 2 in which he started alongside Yao, Garnett scored 25 and 24. In the last 2 when Yao was out and Deke and Juwan were starting, Garnett went for 26 and 18 with Hayes playing ~ 20 minutes in each of those games while Juwan and Deke spent most of the time on the floor. I will admit, Hayes and everybody has some problems with Garnett, because Garnett isn't just a low post guy. Garnett can move out on the floor and fire the jumper right over Hayes......or most anybody else for that matter. Duncan cannot do this effectively, save for the little bank shot from the left side.

Shawn Marion's numbers are irrelevant for this discussion. obviously Hayes is our better defender against either him or Amare than Juwan. Marion was held to 13,14,13 in games where Chuck played major minutes. In the one game where Chuck only played 10 minutes, Marion went off for 30.

In the first game against Utah regular season, Boozer went off for 24. Hayes did not start and played 8 minutes. (I remember screaming at the TV this game, as it was obvious from Hayes few minutes that he was the defensive answer for Boozer. Instead, JVG kept running Juwan and Yao at him. ) In the 2nd game against Utah, Yao was out and Deke and Juwan started. Boozer was a much more reasonable 15 points and Hayes got 18 minutes. In the 3rd game, Hayes started, Boozer shot 4 for 13 from the field in his 25 minutes and Hayes incidentally played 25 minutes. (Do you see a pattern yet?) The last game was meaningless, the last game of the season. Boozer started and scored 9 points on 3 of 7 in 18 minutes. Hayes started and played 25 minutes.

Now for Brand. First game, Hayes starts alongside Yao. Brand scores 19 in 43 minutes on 5 for 12 shooting. In the second game, Hayes starts, Brand one again 5 for 12 for 16 points. (In all fairness here, Hayes played 23 minutes in each of these games, Juwan played around 25, and Battier 44. They were all splitting time on Brand.) 3rd game, Brand goes off for 37 against Hayes and Howard playing 21 and 24 minutes respectively with Hayes starting alongside Yao. (I remember this game. Elton just came down and was firing that left side jumper and hitting crazy. Face up game is Hayes biggest defensive weakness. Post up game is Hayes strong point defensively.) 4th game Brand got 24 mostly off Hayes probably (face up shooting), since Hayes played 33 minutes.

Here's the truth. Hayes is the best pure post defender on this team and one of the best post defenders in the league. Hayes also has very quick to draw charges when helping on defense. Hayes' defensive weakness is against taller face up players that can shoot the basketball (Garnett and Brand). However, during the last part of the year, I personally noticed Chuck pulling the Battier move on the shooters and getting the hand in the eyes instead of trying to go for the block. I think he will be even better defensively on those shooters next season after picking up one of Battier's tricks.

Hayes was our best defender by far against the power power forwards who take the ball down in the low block, like Duncan and Boozer and I'll repeat he's one of the best post up power forward defenders in the league, simply because of his quick feet, his low center of gravity, his quick hands, and his great strength. That is a great combination for a post up defender.

And here's the real problem at the PF position, that is the fact that Juwan Howard cannot defend a fire hydrant out there and on top of being too slow and flat flooted to stop anybody, his shooting is very overrated, and is in fact below average and declining further. Juwan is a retired NBA player still playing in the rotation on our team, simply because we have no one else at the PF position.

You watch. When we get another PF that Chuck can complement, Chuck's value will increase even more. Remember, he's only got basically a year and a half experience under his belt. He is going to get better. Yes, he's a role player, and always will be. But, he is an effective role player. The man love is simply because of what he has been able to accomplish and because of the tremendous value he represents. Compare his production and his salary to the rest of the power forwards in this league. Nene makes over $11 million a season. He's going into his 6th season and basically gives you 5 extra ppg over what Hayes does. And we will probably be able to sign Hayes for under $2 million. That's good value man. If he never gets any better and only averages 20 mpg the rest of his career, and only makes about $2 million per, that is still very effective. Take a gander around the league and see what starting power forwards are getting paid. Take a gander and see what reserve power forwards are getting paid. It's ridiculous.

1. Hayes is not all we need at PF.
2. Hayes is a very effective role player and represents great value.
3. Hayes IS a very, very good post defender.
4. Juwan is too slow and nonathletic to play with Yao.
5. Hayes meshes with Yao very well.
6. We need another PF/C complement to both Yao and Hayes that can defend some and can give us more effective offense than Juwan.
7. Hayes is going to get better, but he will always be a role player.
8. Hayes is not the problem at PF, he is part of the solution. The problem is we don't have any more solution to the PF slot than just Hayes.
9. Juwan is the problem at the PF spot because he is too slow and nonathletic to play alongside an already slow Yao.
10. If we get an upgrade at the PF slot over Juwan, a PF that can score more efficienctly and can give us some defense and rebounds, Hayes value and numbers will improve even more.

11-999. See 4 and 9 above.

 

Ok, Nikestrad, HayesFan, and jopatmc have convinced me: Hayes is NOT a TERRIBLE rebounder. I won't say he is great however. I still think he should be an off the bench "energy player".

PS. There is no way in HELL Hollinger is right that Hayes is a better defender than Garnett.

 

I'll have to agree with you here. Its still saying something that Hayes can even enter that discussion, though.

 

Hayes is good at entering discussions, especially ones that are supposed to be about Bonzi Wells.

 

Frankly, I care more about Hayes than Bonzi Wells.

Hayes contributed to the team. Wells did not. Hayes was and remains to be a more important part of the Rockets.

 

Bonzi had his multiple chances here but he wasted them all. I don't see any reason why the Rockets should bring him back. All his recent actions show that he is not only completely unhelpful to our team, but also that he has been/and potentially will again be a cancer. His inclusion into next year's team would not only hurt the team chemistry--it could potentially destroy it and our season as well. At this rate, I hope the Rockets will not resign him period. I wouldn't even want to see him play for us for free because:

1. He showed up overweight and with a bad attitude. Basketball is his profession...if you show up to your job like Bonzi did...need I say more?

2. Despite this, the Rockets and Van Gundy gave him many chances to become a useful part of the team, but what does he do in response?--he proceeds to quit on the team during the closing stretch of the season.

Number 1 I can swallow, but number 2 is just absolutely disgusting. It just shows that he has no class and is a shameless loser. You just don't quit on your team in the most crucial stretch of the season How do you think this effected the morale of our team? If Vspan decided that he wasn't playing enough and decides to quit in the middle of the season, a lot of you on this forum would be calling for his head. I don't understand how so many of you can choose to forgive/forget what Bonzi did to our team this season.

I remember many of you were talking about how the chemistry of the team suffered towards the end of the season. Don't you think that it's possible that it might have had something to do with the Bonzi saga? How does the team morale not suffer when one of its "members" decides to quit during the most crucial part of the season? To me that would seem like a direct slap to the face. Maybe this is just because I really value the importance of the team, but I believe what he did was truly unacceptable.

Bonzi has to go...if the Rockets bring him back again, it could be one of the worst decisions they make this year. How do you think the team would feel if they see the guy who basically quit on them last year come back again?

 

Outstanding post. I agree with everything.

 

Ditto. Great analysis of Hayes' defensive qualities. Thanks, jopatmc.

But still, what to do about his being a liability on the offensive side?

 

Any tidbits released about the bonzi meeting yet?

 

Not that I gathered.

Hopefully they gave him some donuts before they talked money.