[Feigen] Bonzi undecided, set to meet with Rockets on Tuesday (Hayes Mention)

definitely keep Hayes!
someone else will take him.

 

I like Hayes coming off the bench, but not as a starter. Saying Hayes was one of the top defensive 4's is just ridiculous. Hayes doesn't deserve that much credit. Did you not forget about his constant foul troubles? The guy clearly has a LOT to improve.

 

Somebody name a PF out there that they'd like to see start for us next season. Someone that we actually have a chance of acquiring, please. Only then does it make sense to argue over who shouldn't start.

 

Whether Hayes starts or not is irrelevant. He is useful for about 20 mpg either way. He's VERY helpful during this time, but after that, his fouls and energy starts hurtintg his effectiveness in many games.

I am convinced Hayes has a role to play for this team is Adelman can see past his lack of a jump shot. Unlike most of the rebound/defense specialists, Chuck actually has very good basketball IQ and would be good at a ball-sharing offense.

 

You can't sum up a player's defensive contributions by just looking at an opposing player's PPG. Particularly in JVG's system where the PF has a significant team defensive role. You can take any great defender by reputation and pick out a handful of opponents who exceeded his averages against him. That doesn't prove anything.

Our team defense was consistently better with Chuck Hayes on the floor. Far better. That's even taking into account opponents we faced and teammates he played with. And that pattern held throughout the season and postseason. It simply can't be seriously discounted as a fluke. Chuck Hayes has many limitations, but if nothing else he is a very good defensive player. I can understand why that would be difficult to swallow for someone who apparently thinks basketball is simply the sum of 5 one-on-one matchups on the floor.

 

A "very good defensive player" and "the 2nd best defensive 4 in the league"...better than Garnett..are two vastly different viewpoints.

I don't care about Hollinger's opinion, PER's, plus/minus from 82 games or $Ball. If the Rockets were in the WC Finals with a one point lead and Tim Duncan with the ball and the game on the line with the floor spread...I'll take at a minimum the defense of Garnett, Dwight Howard, Rasheed Wallace, Okafor and Brand, That's 6 off the top of my head. You could probably make a case for Shawn Marion and David West.

If Hayes is that freakin' good at defense, he'll get half an MLE, right?

 

I think Hayes is a very good man to man defender. He is only 6'6, shorter than our backup SG (Kirk Snyder) yet I have never seen him get abused in the post. He also shut Okur down in the playoffs with his quickness, and did a MUCH better job on Boozer than Yao did.

However, he is a zero on offense and is a TERRIBLE rebounder/shotblocker. In Game 7 he got a grand total of 2 rebounds in 30 minutes of play. He in no shape or form is better than guys like Garnett, Brand, Wallace etc who have the complete package of man to man defense, rebounding AND scoring.

As to what Chuck's role on the team is, there should definitely be a place for him. We should be looking for a starting PF that has skills that Chuck does not have-namely rebounding and being able to score more than wide open layups.

 

I used 1 game as an example, not as proof. Rafer Alston was our 2nd leading rebounder behind Yao over the course of the 7 game Utah series. That IMHO is a strong indictment of our frontline's (Hayes and Howard) ability to rebound. BTW forcing guards to hit the defensive boards hard makes it difficult to score easy fastbreak pts. We need a starting PF that is taller than our backup SG next year in the rotation.

PS. Ben Wallace getting 0 rebounds in some meaningless game on Nov 24 is a lot more acceptable than getting 2 rebounds in GAME 7 when the season is on the line!

 

Dirk was swarmed by the defense, being the superstar that he is. He has also gotten a lot of criticism for his pitiful performance. Did people say "Hey, it was just one game, he is still a great scorer!"? No, rather they said the MVP award this year is travesty. The playoffs are where you prove your worth, Dirk has proven himself time and time in the past, Hayes so far has NOT. Big difference.

That being said, I do agree with your point about Hayes being on the perimeter. This may have been a factor in why he was outrebounded by Skip to my Lou. However, it still doesn't explain why his perimeter counterpart Okur outrebounded him consistently at 8.1 rb/game. Okur isn't known for his rebounding, yet he outrebounded Hayes, whose ONLY job is defense and rebounding.

In regards to your Rafer comment, he shouldn't be forced to help out the bigs on the board. He should be looking for the quick outlet and fastbreak. Don't compare him to Kidd who is naturally a great rebounder and is able to set up the fast break without a quick outlet. BTW, isn't Kidd taller than Hayes?! Hehe.

 

This means almost nothing because the alternative was Juwan Howard. It's just like we found out how much better we were with Rafer when he got thrown out of a game. When your backups are totally pathetic, it makes the starter look better than they are. Both Chuck and Rafer need to be outta here or made into the 2nd or 3rd string players they really are. There is no fluke because the explanation is very simple.

I'll give you this: Chuck has room for improvement. He is so unskilled on offense he can't go anywhere but up. How much he improves over the summer remains to be seen. He makes Otis Thorpe look like Dr.J.

 

Not that I am excusing Chuck's one bad rebounding game.. but Okur was guarding Yao on defense which allowed him to be close to the basket for defensive rebounds. So you are comparing apples to oranges.

Did Okur get more offensive rebounds? No, he didn't... which means even if Chuck wasn't getting the defensive rebounds off a Utah shot, Okur wasn't getting to the basket to get them either.

Watch Utah boxing out Chuck on the Rockets offensive end in the last three games of that series... they were literally holding his arm down to keep him away from the ball. If I recall correctly Boozer got like 4 defensive rebounds over/around Chuck by doing that. He would hold Chuck's arm with one hand until he was ready to jump for the ball, taking away any advantage of Chuck's speed to get around him to the ball.

Okur had zero offensive rebounds in that last game.... Boozer on the other hand had 4 offensive rebounds... and Matt Harpring had 3... so someone wasn't boxing those two out at all on the offensive end.

In fact, if we want to get down to it... Yao only had 6 rebounds in that last game. Does that mean we need a better rebounding center?

I guess my point is, that yes you all are right, no matter how you look at it, a more athletic PF is needed, but to discount what good things that Chuck did for this team last season is uncalled for.

Edit: I should have waited.. lol Nike and I said basically the same thing.

 

So there are no information about Bonzi? Will he stay in Houston (I hope so)? I know they should talk today but I cannot find any news

 

is this you, Van Gundier?

 

Anyone got an idea about how long it might take to hear that he is opting out?

 

The only way he will play for the Rox is if he does NOT opt out, IMO. At least that way we will get at least a year's worth of play for 4.5 MM. I have no idea that the Rox will give him MLE to play for us after last year.