1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

F-35 is such a turd.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by lpbman, Feb 20, 2010.

  1. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Messages:
    23,271
    Likes Received:
    9,625
    Interesting stuff!
     
    KingCheetah likes this.
  2. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    56,288
    Likes Received:
    48,165
    I guess this is really happening... (I'll believe it when I see it).
    _______

    Since breaking the F-15X story last July, pretty much everything our original exposé discussed has come true. After many discounted that original report, last December Bloomberg reported that the F-15X would indeed appear as a procurement program of record for the Pentagon's 2020 budget proposal, which is due to be released at any time. Comments by heads of the USAF and industry have since confirmed this eventuality. Still, that report was thin on details, leading to quite a bit of confusion about what would be included in the USAF's initial investment into the F-15X and what was exactly planned for the program overall. With that in mind, we have new details that answer some of these questions and paint a finer picture of what the F-15X will look like when it rolls off the production line, in one of two distinct forms, as well as what the new Eagle variant will mean for the United States Air Force.

    http://amp.timeinc.net/thedrive/the...-and-no-it-wont-cost-100m-per-copy?source=dam
     
  3. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    4,452
    Likes Received:
    5,866
    Thank god for the 2nd amendment or else the people wouldn't have guns to fight the government and those F35 cannons.
     
    Deckard and No Worries like this.
  4. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    16,308
    Likes Received:
    3,580
    You should go research Vietnam... atypical warfare relies heavily on small arms and is very effective.
     
  5. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    85,785
    Likes Received:
    84,196
    It was not really like that at all. I guess it would depend on what years you're talking about.
     
  6. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    16,308
    Likes Received:
    3,580
    Small arms are important is my main point. You can use them to seize larger weapons as well. This idea that small arms should be confiscated because govt's have jets is ignorance. The founders put this bill in place so a militia could rise against Tyranny and defend from foreign invasion. Period.

    Not saying you disagree with all of that, but some on this forum have displayed real ignorance regarding the second amendment and its purpose.
     
  7. HTM

    HTM Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    6,493
    Likes Received:
    4,715
    The Afghani's seem to do alright against World SuperPowers with their simplistic arms... as far as I know they defeated the British Empire X2, the Soviet Union and are about to defeat the United States.

    The simplistic argument, "Ur my gurd guys the Government has nukes and jets... civilians with assault rifles could never defeat them" shows a real lack of understanding of how a popular insurgency works or how often they have been successful throughout history.
     
    dachuda86 likes this.
  8. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    16,308
    Likes Received:
    3,580
    But can't we nuke a guy with a rifle? :confused:
     
  9. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    4,452
    Likes Received:
    5,866
    Oh you mean the Afghani's and their US backed weapons like the stinger missile that they used. To imply that they used only simplistic weapons is hogwash at best.
     
    #189 AleksandarN, Feb 12, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
    Buck Turgidson likes this.
  10. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    4,452
    Likes Received:
    5,866
    That is my point I was trying to make. Back then weapons were simplistic at best.
     
  11. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    4,452
    Likes Received:
    5,866
    You watched too much Red Dawn when you were a kid.
     
    Deckard and Buck Turgidson like this.
  12. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    85,785
    Likes Received:
    84,196
    So did I, but I grew up.
     
    Deckard likes this.
  13. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    16,308
    Likes Received:
    3,580
    You didn't read my post carefully... so here it is again with the part you ignore conveniently in bold:

    Small arms are important is my main point. You can use them to seize larger weapons as well. This idea that small arms should be confiscated because govt's have jets is ignorance. The founders put this bill in place so a militia could rise against Tyranny and defend from foreign invasion. Period.

    Not saying you disagree with all of that, but some on this forum have displayed real ignorance regarding the second amendment and its purpose.
     
  14. HTM

    HTM Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    6,493
    Likes Received:
    4,715
    So, your rebuttal to my point that the poor, relatively poorly equipped Afghani’s have defeated 4 European/Western super-powers via insurgency is to point out in one of those instances the CIA provided the Afghani’s a certain amount of medium grade equipment? Wow you just blew my point away. What a joke of a response. Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

    Seems like you’ve been watching a bit too much Rambo III (or whatever Rambo it was).
     
    dachuda86 likes this.
  15. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    56,288
    Likes Received:
    48,165


    How does it do this without thrust vectoring?
     
  16. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    56,288
    Likes Received:
    48,165
    The F-35 has already freaked out Iran and changed everything in the Middle East

    In July 2018, a Kuwaiti newspaper reported that Israel had flown a test mission of at least three F-35 jets to Tehran and back from an airbase near Tel Aviv. While never confirmed publicly, a good number of military and political leaders in the region believed and still believe the story. The long-rumored threat the F-35 posed to Iran now seemed like a reality.

    Earlier this month, reports in the same Kuwaiti newspaper said that Iran’s military leadership panicked enough over the purported stealth mission that it kept news of it from reaching Iran’s Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei.

    But when Khamenei found out about the mission, he reportedly moved to fire not only Iran’s air force chief but also the long-serving and powerful commander of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps. That’s major impact without even firing a shot.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/18/f-3...nd-changed-everything-in-the-middle-east.html
     
  17. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2001
    Messages:
    18,316
    Likes Received:
    5,088
  18. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    8,327
    Likes Received:
    11,299
  19. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    15,068
    Likes Received:
    6,246
    Im perfectly fine with them getting the F-35. They are extremely expensive toys to be destroyed once they get them.

    Turkey knows having a defense system is much more important than trying to go up against NATO with F-35's.
     
  20. lpbman

    lpbman Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2001
    Messages:
    4,157
    Likes Received:
    691
    https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/320295-the-us-air-force-quietly-admits-the-f-35-is-a-failure

    To say the F-35 has failed to deliver on its goals would be an understatement. Its mission capable rate is 69 percent, below the 80 percent benchmark set by the military. 36 percent of the F-35 fleet is available for any required mission, well below the required 50 percent standard. Current and ongoing problems include faster than expected engine wear, transparency delamination of the cockpit, and unspecified problems with the F-35’s power module. The General Accountability Office (GAO) has blamed some of this on spare parts shortages, writing:

    [T]he F-35 supply chain does not have enough spare parts available to keep aircraft flying enough of the time necessary to meet warfighter requirements. “Several factors contributed to these parts shortages, including F-35 parts breaking more often than expected, and DOD’s limited capability to repair parts when they break.

    There have been so many problems with the F-35, it’s difficult even to summarize them. Pilot blackouts, premature part failures, software development disasters, and more have all figured in various documents over the years. Firing the main gun can crack the plane. The Air Force has already moved to buy new F-15EX aircraft. Multiple partner nations that once promised F-35 buys have shifted orders to other planes. The USAF continues to insist it will purchase 1,763 aircraft, but the odds of it doing so are increasingly dubious. The F-15EX costs an estimated $20,000 per hour to fly. The F-35 runs $44,000. Lockheed-Martin has promised to bring that cost down to $25,000, but it’s been promising that for years. Former Air Force pilots have not been kind in their recent evaluations of the aircraft’s performance and capabilities.



    To dig up this dead horse I'll start by admitting that I never thought the per plane cost would get under 100million. 2021 budget request puts the procurement cost at 110 million each for F35A (48 for $5.3B), a few production lots were below 100million That's because I always thought the number of planes on order would have been cut a long, long time ago. It is still not, nor will ever be the "low" in a high/low force makeup. It is still not a capable jack of all trades workhorse. The ridiculous concurrent production has resulted in 100+ airframes that are unfit for combat. The number is hard to pin down, but it is a complete clusterf@#$ none of the delivered planes are currently block 4 (that is, loaded with combat capable nuke ready software) and many will never be compatible without significant expenditure (Technical Refresh 3 hardware upgrade). TR3 compatible hardware will first be delivered in 2023 lot 15 production.

    So a few hundred million more to the cost 455 billion (fy2021 dollars) and another 11 billion in R&D for block 4 C2D2 (continuous capability development and delivery) you'll get some combat ready aircraft. In a few years. Maybe. Scuttlebutt says many of the earliest planes produced are hopeless and will only ever be suitable for training.

    I really want to say just die already.... but at this point it's probably worth it to grind out the F-35B/C. Developing STOL capability from scratch would cost an absolute fortune that doesn't get spent on planes that fight.

    F-35A, however, should be killed today. There are a hundred different, superior ways to spend the money going to this ol turd. If you are smarter about how your money is spent from a capabilities standpoint, it hurts less if/when the overall budget is cut.
     
    dmoneybangbang likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now