I know some of you guys have seen the ESPN article that lists the top head coaches in the NBA. Did any of you guys notice where all of the black coaches are? They are almost all at the bottom of the list. There is only one black coach in the top half and it is Doc Rivers at #13. By my count there are twelve black coaches in the NBA and ESPN ranked eleven of them in the bottom thirteen. I didn't even notice the trend until I read this article http://www.dallasbasketball.com/headline_A.asp?pr= Give me one possible reason why Byron Scott and Nate McMillan are underneath George Karl. C'mon guys GEORGE KARL. He had a great team and couldn't even get them to the playoffs in the east. Last year Milwaukee was supposed to have the best team in the east and they imploded. Then George Karl goes out to coach the Dream Team and loses THREE TIMES and finishes sixth place. Byron Scott helped to completely turn the Nets around and took them to the finals. Nate Mcmillan had a horrible team and at least got them to the playoffs, not to mention that he is in the western conference. Lets look at the lineups here Seattle Payton Barry Mason Baker Radmonovic with Jerome James probably the best player off the bench Milwaukee Cassell Allen Robinson Mason Johnson with Michael Redd and Tim Thomas coming off the bench. Now one could make the point that George Karl was good in years before but even that argument would be skewed. If you go with that then you also have to say that Lenny Wilkens is above George Karl, Doug Collins, and Rick Carlisle. Speaking of Rick Carlisle, how is he number six and Doc Rivers is number 13. Yeah Rick Carlisle won coach of the year as a rookie but Doc Rivers did too. What puts Rick Carlisle seven spots higher than Rivers and twelve spots higher than Byron Scott. I am not saying it is all racism, some of it is probably stupidity but all I am asking is for some consistency among how the coaches are being judged. If you are going by career feats than do that for everyone if you are going by the last two years than do that for everyone.
I didn't notice it but I think you're right. I wouldn't accuse them of doing it consciously or maliciously, but it does seem like it was some factor in the back of their minds. It is hard to judge because the integrity of the criteria they used in making the list could be reproduced with a dart and a blindfold, but 11 of 13 is a bit much to leave to chance. Of course, it could be that ESPN does not what they are talking about and the black coaches just aren't very good, but it is just a little too much to believe that ESPN knows what they are talking about.
Well, once you get past the top 10, the difference between 11-29 probably isn't that big...Besides, most of the black head coaches are relatively new to coaching. 7 of the top 12 coaches have all been coaching at least 10 years, while 11 of the black coaches have six years experience or less. I think ESPN did more of an all time ranking among the active head coaches, rather than the best coaches right now. The users rankings are REALLY messed up. Don Chaney #14 and Rudy T at #22? Didn't Rudy <i>replace</i> good ole' Don?
ESPN's rankings are in error in that for some coaches, they took what they've done lately, while for others, they took their past legacy exclusively, such as A-Train mentioned. There's just no consistancy in the rankings. As for racism - maybe not conciously, but it may have been a thought in the back of their minds, such as JuanValdez insinuated. The user rankings aren't that much better - there's a big city vias in there, especially as demonstrated by Bill Cartwright at #10 and Larry Brown at #2. Paul Silas at #25 is laughable.
All I can come up with on this is that Carlisle finished second in the eastern conference, which is something Doc has never done. In fact, when Rivers won coach of the year the Magic didn't even make the playoffs, so I think Carlisle definitely had a large edge over him. As for the rest of it, ESPN really used bad judgement in even releasing this list. I think some of it is just coincidence, a lot of the black coaches just happen to be new and coaching bad teams. But when you have 13 black coaches in the league and 14 white coaches, and you rank 12 of those white coaches higher than any black coach it goes beyond coincidence. There is something really wrong with this ranking. And by the way, this whole list was a joke to begin with. It doesn't even explain what the hell they are basing their rankings on. The two biggest things that make this ranking suspicous... 1.) These three guys haven't done **** as an NBA coach going into the 2001-2002 NBA Season: Carlisle, Obrien, and Scott. Carlise leads his team to 2nd, Obrien to 3rd, and Scott to first. Scott then takes his team to the NBA Finals. And the result of this is ESPN ranks Carlisle 6th, O'Brien 8th, and Scott 18th. You can even see that ESPN tried to explain it by saying, "Deserves more credit for Nets' Finals berth." No sh*t! 2.) Lenny Wilkens ranked 15th with Riley ranked 4th. Not only did Wilkens have a better season than Riley this past year, but he has more wins all-time!!! Are they just applying the past accomplishments more to Riley than they are to Wilkens?
Man, I'm with you on this one. ESPN owes NBA fans in general a more thourough explanation than the insipid little comments they place beside each ranking. At least make some kind of attempt to make sense of your sh*t. I will admit that coaching is an area that black people won't rank too highly in in our modern sports society. Why? Because its a "thinking man's" position. The greatest example of the is how the media portrays NFL Quaterbacks. Whereas Peyton, Warner, Favre and the gang have great mental abilities, McNabb, McNair, Vick, Culpepper, Stewart and the like simply take advantage of their great atheletic ability. Its a trend in sports that is very gradually changing at a very slow rate. I wouldn't doubt that ESPN simply forgot to rank the black coaces high because they were hardly considered in the first place. Its not so much active racicim as it is a dumbass way of thinking that is sub-conciously prevalent in our society. The only way to end it is to point it out and make everyone aware, like DFN did.
You have to hand it to the NBA, though (not to go off topic), but at least they HAVE black coaches...
And the shame of it is that black quarterbacks who were "traditional" quarterbacks like Warren Moon and Bernie Kosar are ignored. You're right, it's just stupid unconscious thinking.
Interesting thread. Like A-Train said, its probably more unconscious than racist especially since ESPN lives of black athletes. Staright up its an unconsistend and kind of silly list they put together. I guy that coached one year is ranked ahead of Rudy, Pat Riley who hasn't done jack in almost a decade ranked very high. The coach of a team that went to the NBA Finals ranked lower than the rookie coach he beat in the EC Finals? Its just erratic and I think that instead of analyzing it, we should just ignore it.
you can call me ignorant or naive or whatever but i dont think there is any racism involved. and what the hell is this stupid article attached? i just read the thing and it is terrible reporting ( i dont even think it is reporting). it might as well be something i read in the national enquirer. i like how it just named "The Experts" or whatever and didnt name any names from where they got their interviews. That story attached is a joke and sounds like something that was made up. There are no names given and the quotes sound as if they were completely made up by someone trying to make ESPN sound bad. if you want to say that ESPN's rankings were racist then that is your deal but I just think you are looking too hard. i just think the rankings are terrible and dumb because they are wrong...not because the seem like they are grouping whites at the top and blacks at the bottom. and i dont even think it is racism in the back of peoples minds...i just think it is a horrible poll...ok i hope that made sense because i was ranting and raving thru most of my typing ....... actually I just emailed the guy who wrote the article to see if it was a real article or if it was just a joke....wonder if he will respond
I don't usually get drawn into racist articles or threads but this article by Mike Fisher over at Dallasbasketball.com is funny. Sad, but funny. The Black Hole ESPN Study: Only Whites Can Coach By Mike Fisher -- DallasBasketball.com ESPN.com’s “Team of NBA Experts’’ has ranked the league’s coaches from 1 to 29 and has come to a startling conclusion: Black men are “ill-equipped’’ and maybe even “unable’’ to lead professional basketball teams. E---.com’s UNBIASED NBA COACH RANKINGS “It could be because some black men speak in really deep voices, and therefore there is a communication problem,’’ says one member “Expert’’ from the E---.com Evil Empire. “Maybe it’s not a ‘lack of intelligence,’ per se, but rather a ‘different sort of intelligence,’ you know? “But whatever it is, it’s clear: Hire a coach who is black, you never go back – to the playoffs, that is.’’ Sources tell both DallasBasketball.com and Lang Whitaker of SLAM Magazine that E---.com’s intensive study discovered that the 12 best coaches in the NBA are, not coincidentally, white. Meanwhile, nine consecutive coaches in the rankings, from 15 to 23, are black. “We’re the worldwide leader in sports,’’ says one of the “Team of NBA Experts.’’ “If we can all agree that the best players in the world are black, why can’t we all agree that the top 12 coaches in the world are white? Each of us have our areas of superiority, right?’’ One member of the “Team of NBA Experts’’ says the trend to hire black coaches is a disturbing one because of what he says is an “inherent lack of leadership qualities.’’ He notes that no black man has ever been a US president, that black people may not have the “natural aptitude’’ to win an Oscar (besides Halle Berry, whom he likes a lot), and that Cowboys quarterback Quincy Carter speaks with a lisp. “We’re going to hell in a handbasket,’’ the Expert says. “When he says, ‘Hut-hut-hut!’’ it comes out, ‘Huth-huth-huth!’ … I call all this ‘The Black Hole.’’’ E---.com also points out that some exceptions are made to their rule of white coaching superiority. Atlanta’s white guy Lon Kruger, for instance, has an NBA record of 58-106 and is ranked 24th. “See? We put Indiana’s black guy Isiah Thomas ahead of Lon,’’ an Expert says, ignoring the fact that Thomas has two playoff appearances in his only two coaching seasons. But how did black guy Lenny Wilkens, the NBA’s all-time winningest coach, manage to achieve only 16th place? How could Detroit’s white Rick Carlisle, with one successful seasaon to his credit, be sixth? And how could white Jim O’Brien of the Celts, with a similar resume, be eighth? How does Washington’s white Doug Collins’ ancient-history 50-win efforts rank him 12th while Cleveland’s black John Lucas’ ancient 55-win season ranks him 26th? “Why? Because some of those guys are white and some are not,’’ one Expert says. “Do you need this spelled out for you? Was Dr. James Naismith black? No. He was an American. … Well, actually, I think he was originally Canadian. But you get the point. … How many black Canadian basketball people do you know?’’ E---.com, in defending itself against potential charges of racism in its rankings, notes that at the very bottom of its list are Denver’s Jeff Bzdelik and Golden State’s Bill Musselman. “They don’t have any experience, so we couldn’t elevate them from last place and second-to-last place,’’ an Expert says, sounding almost sad. “But you almost want to put Jeff and Eric last with a bullet – let them get one or two games under their belts, and they quite likely jump ahead of, say, No. 17, the Hornets Paul Silas and his three straight playoff berths.’’ The Experts offer a logical explanation for ranking Doc Rivers of Orlando all the way up at 13. “It’s a little embarrassing,’’ admits one E---.com staffer, laughing. “But the truth is, he comes across as so well-spoken and non-combative, we forgot he wasn’t white.’’ There was similar confusion, sources tell us, over Minnesota’s No. 9 white guy Flip Saunders, as some of the more elderly panelists confused him with popular 1970’s comedian Flip Wilson. “Here come da Judge! Here come da Judge! Here come da Judge!’’ sings one E---.com Expert. “That was funny!’’ The Experts do write on their website that No. 18, black guy Byron Scott, “deserves more credit for Nets' Finals berth.’’ But they fail to see the irony in their comment and the fact that they themselves had the authority to be the ones to give him that credit. “That’s a good point, and we’re not saying Scott didn’t do a decent job, almost a white-like job,’’ one Expert says. “But do you really want to come right out and say he could be a better coach that Milwaukee’s George Karl (14th)? You say that, and these people aren’t going to be kept in their place. Next thing you know, Byron Scott gets all uppity and moves right into your neighborhood.’’ Karl, by the way, was apparently a lightning rod of debate among the “Team of NBA Experts’’ because of his alleged mishandling of Team USA. But the Experts finally decided that because Karl’s World Championships losses came at the hands of white opponents – featuring naturally-white traits such as ballhandling, passing and team unity -- it could be excused. Many of the Evil Empire’s more thoughful “Team of NBA Experts’’ members were quick to point out that some of the top-of-the-rankings coaches, despite their whiteness, have a certain “blackness’’ to them. Says one Expert: “Phil Jackson of the Lakers at No. 1? He ‘represents,’ as the black people like to say. Philly’s Larry Brown at No. 2? Look at how he tries to relate to that little hood Iverson. And No. 3, Jerry Sloan? He coaches a team called “the Jazz.’’ How black is that?’’ E---.com admits that its study is “not scientific.’’ But, adds one of the Evil Empire’s “Experts’’: “I hope you’re not suggesting that those of us on the ‘Team of NBA Experts’ panel are ignorant. We’re not the problem. It’s not us guys who are stupid – it’s all them damn negro coaches.’’
Bernie Kosar was black?!?! really? I think I should point out by the way that Vick, Stewart, and McNabb are athletic freaks by the way. Can anyone compare a single white qb in the nfl to any of these guys athletically? I'm not trying to legitimize the stereotyping of these QBs. Warren Moon in particular was strictly a pocket passer closer in athletic ability to Dan Marino than Kordell Stewart. To a lesser extent, Culpepper and McNair are pocket qb's more so than "athletic" scrambling throwing the ball on the run qb's. And the kid at Marshall, Leftwich, is one heck of a passing qb (if you ask me) and if guys like he and Culpepper can make names for themselves as PASSERS and not "athletic" qb's it will help to eliminate the racial stereotypes over time.
ok in case yall were curious the article was a joke...maybe i am dumb for not realizing it at 1st but hey you never know sometimes. here was his reply to me after i asked if it was a joke or not... Robbie >My article was a joke -- almost as funny as the rankings themselves. >Let me ask you a question (and please feel free to ask the same in your >discussions elsewhere): If all the top-ranked coaches had come from the >East. ... or if all the Heisman finalists came from California schools. ... >would we notice? >I noticed that somehow, Lenny Wilkens didn't make it up top but Karl did, >that BScott didn't make it high but JOBrien did. ... doesnt that strike you >as odd? >Not racist, but odd? >Shouldn't somebody at ESPN have caught this before you and I did? >thanks for your thoughtful note >Fish
What I find funny is that even David Aldridge himself posted an article on the same subject: http://espn.go.com/nba/columns/aldridge_david/1435691.html
Don't you think ESPN is feeling a wee bit embarassed yet? As Aldridge himself implies (or at least as I inferred), the ESPN editorial staff looked to their black writer to put some spin on this and save ESPN from complete humiliation. I think it worked to an extent -- I figured they would duck the issue, pretend the complaint never reached their ears, and quickly move on to their next feature. That they actually published something to make amends, speaks well for them, imo. The funny thing is that Aldridge doesn't defend them, which I doubt he should. He writes about the subject -- which is a sort of poor replacement for an apology -- but bashes the ranking system they used and second-guesses his fellow 'experts'' choices. He makes himself look pretty good in the process, but implicitly confirms that ESPN published a terrible article. I can imagine the white folks there squirming when they read the article they asked him to write and being unable to change a single word of it. So, do you think the Aldridge article was good spin or are they just digging their grave a little deeper? I think, somehow, some way, it was good -- Aldridge bailed them out by writing an article that didn't excuse them at all for the article they had written. By the way, Fish, if you're reading: great article.
I think Aldridge came with the pefect response. He didn't apologize for espn's actions, nor did he condemn them. He basically said, "Look at yourselves and analyze whats wrong. I'm not going to do it for you." I like that.
Here you go... Rank the top WR's in the last 20 years Rank the top RB's in the last 20 years Are you a racist? I'm not saying what is and what is not. I'm just throwing it out there.... I think you would be hard pressed to even name 5 white rb's or 5 Wr's that even play, let alone start, without looking it up on the internet.
