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[ESPN] Learning about sports from a 2½-year-old

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Hayesfan, Nov 27, 2007.

  1. Hayesfan

    Hayesfan Contributing Member

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    So while avoiding work today I scanned the rss feed for ESPN and found this little gem.

    As much as I disagree with the guy a lot of the time Simmons has a talent for writing. (PS I don't know if this necessarily goes in the NBA dish, so mods move it if you like! :))

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/071126&sportCat=nba

     
  2. dntrwl

    dntrwl Member

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    Good stuff, he definitely does know how to write..I can only hope kids in the future for me are basketball aficionados.
     
  3. AstroRocket

    AstroRocket Member

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    Funny quotes about this article from sotsg:


     
  4. finalsbound

    finalsbound Contributing Member

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    That's hilarious!

    Good read.
     
  5. JeopardE

    JeopardE Contributing Member

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    This has to be the funniest thing I've read in weeks.
     
  6. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Here's what the Sports Guy wrote a week ago on the outlook of the Rockets (behind Hornets and Nuggets) for the season, not the current standing:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/071121&sportCat=nba

    I don't care if Bill Simon can write or not, the guy should not be given a job writing articles on NBA teams. Friggin' moron. Stay home with your 2½-year-old.
     
    #6 wnes, Nov 29, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2007
  7. blathersby

    blathersby Contributing Member

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    But... but he's justified in his beliefs. Yao isn't that good defensively; he doesn't play straight up and down. He gets into foul trouble because of that. Couple that with his constant turnovers and inability to win in the postseason and you have a hell of an argument against Yao.

    But remember that EVERYONE questioned Elway until he won the big one.
     
  8. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    I don't agree for several reasons:

    1) Yao is still evolving, for better or for worse;

    2) the Rockets is not just about Yao;

    3) his W-L predictions are strictly for regular season records, but he steered off course by getting into playoffs; if regular season record is the barometer for playoff success, then the Rockets should beat the Jazz last spring;

    4) what comparable justifications are there for placing the Hornets and the Nuggets ahead of the Rockets?

    Bill Simon is a moron. There is no other way to put it.
     
  9. blathersby

    blathersby Contributing Member

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    I wholeheartedly agree with you. Yao IS still evolving. But this article is about this season, not later seasons when he might have finally reached his peak. But I see players like Dwight Howard (who I've always liked for some reason) and Amare Stoudemire develop so quickly and can't help but wonder why Yao has so many problems defensively.
    As long as he's a guaranteed starter and in the game at crunch time, the Rockets likely ARE about Yao. And T-Mac. But if Yao is unable to protect the basket (especially at the end of the game), that's HUGE liability for the Rockets. Add to that the the increasing speed of the league. Yao is slow and has stamina problems (which he has DRASTICALLY improved upon).
    I agree? But the Rockets DIDN'T beat the Jazz, and Yao was among the players who didn't show up in those games. Injury excuses aside, it wasn't Yao's first opportunity to clinch a first round win. But this is his 6th season in the NBA; it's time to stop making excuses for him.
    The Hornets constantly beat the crap out of the Rockets. CP3 is one of the best PGs in the league when he isn't injured; he's like a younger Baron Davis. The Nuggets were believed by most of the national media to be one of the best teams in the NBA. And with AI, Suckerpunch, and K-Mart, they can really do some damage. And the Rockets were in the middle of a real tailspin. Add to that the Jon Barry comments about taking 2-3 years to install the offense and you have a great reason to place them down there.
    No, he's a fan. He writes as a fan from a fan's perspective. He's an everyman, and that's what makes him successful. He's got a decent sense of humor and good writing ability. But he's not a homer, and that means he'll always be hated.

    This Rockets team will go one of two ways:
    They'll get ahold of Slick Rick's offense quickly and become a 50+ game winner with great playoffs success.
    Or they'll struggle for a season or two to grasp the offense and be mired in mehdiocrity. McGrady will get older, and much of the team's current depth will be long gone by the time this happens. 40-something wins this season. Decent team.
    This does not take into account the always-possible "Oww! My back! Oww! My toe!" scenario.
     
    #9 blathersby, Nov 29, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2007
  10. blathersby

    blathersby Contributing Member

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    So I'm rereading what I wrote when it hit me that I said that Bill Simmons is not a homer. What I meant to say is that he's not a HOUSTON homer. Hell, even someone completely illiterate would be able to spot Simmons' Boston love.
     
  11. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Actually we have seen both gradual improvements made by Yao over the course of his NBA career up to this point and leaps and bounds of changes in Yao's game within a single season (05/06). Plus it was only 3 weeks into this season when the article was written, so while it was true the Rockets were badly struggling you can not at all exclude the possibility of Yao and his team turning the tide.

    I don't know what you are talking about. Your assertions don't seem to be backed by facts.

    If we cite incomplete data from this season on 82games.com, Yao has the 2nd best net production (own - opp) in PER at +11.5 on his team, which is actually slightly better than Howard (+11.1), and a lot better than Stoudemire (+5.7).
    Yao = Howard >> Stoudemire

    If we go by last (full) season's net PERs: Yao +17.2, DHo +10.1, Amare +7.8.
    Yao >> Howard > Amare

    Yao's defensive problems are way overblown, by knee-jerkers like dirvasa who screamed Yao should be taken out of games whenever opponents go small just because Yao was a little late on a couple of pick and rolls (if the Rocket guards were more quick-footed chasing their own men or more competent at lock down defense, there wouldn't even be problems in the first place) in the Dallas game, and by BSPN's SportsCenter's highlights showing only opponents' dunks with Yao guarding them.

    Houston was rated as one of the best defensive teams and one of the best defensive teams in the paint -- if I am not mistaken -- in the regular season last year NOT JUST BECAUSE Deke started 30 some games while Yao was recovering from injury. You have to remember a regular season has 82 games and Yao played 48 of them.

    As the starting center who keys in team's offense as well as defense, Yao sure takes a large part in both ends of the floor. But you should refrain from talking about perceptions and cherry-picking odd games when you don't have the full stats to back you up.

    Sorry if I sound a little derisive but this is hilarious.

    First of all, regular season and playoffs are two different animals. Any NBA fan who also plays tournament bridge will have no problem finding parallels between pair vs knockout team competitions in bridge and regular season vs playoffs in NBA. By all means, JVG is a solid regular season coach and Yao is an excellent regular season player. Individual match-up problems are not a big deal in regular season, as long as the coach and his players can manage to come up with enough wins after 82 games by employing sound strategies and game plans that can competently deal with a majority of NBA teams in these 82 games. Yao has proven he is more than a capable center in regular season so long he is not playing while injured. Bill Simon's article was all about the regular season, how Yao did in the playoffs had little to do with the regular season.

    Second, I happen to notice the portion of my post to which you replied was not talking about Yao. Why did you resort to dragging him into the discussion? As a Yao fan, I freely admit Yao didn't perform to my expectation in that Utah series, or in simple term, Yao sucked. But then again, who did not? McGrady? He was only marginally better than Yao, but not a whole lot. Otherwise, Van Gundy might very well be still coaching the Rockets. So who truly showed up in those games? Nobody. Houston just barely lost to Utah in the playoffs but barely edged them in regular season final standing despite the 1-3 head-to-head regular season record vs the Jazz.

    Hornets regularly beat the crap of the Rockets, but they could not repeat the same feat against other teams in the regular season.

    So here you have the evidence: playoff performances are irrelevant, and regular season head-to-head match up matters little, if at all, to the final standing.

    Third, "CP3 is one of the best PGs in the league when he isn't injured", OK fine, but wasn't Yao THE best center in the league after he fixed his toe and before he broke his leg?

    "Injure aside"? Yes or no?

    Fourth, even if past playoff records can serve as a reference, what has Denver done in the last 4 years to deserve a spot above the Rockets? "The Nuggets were believed by most of the national media to be one of the best teams in the NBA," oh yeah? How did they do last year after AI joined them? If media hype is the sole guideline, shouldn't the hype of 1-2 punch of McGrady-Yao be the same basis for ranking the Rockets high?

    Oh, I got it, because Jon Barry said it would take the Rockets 2-3 year to fully implement Adelman's offense, this is not Rockets' year. But wait, nobody predicted the Nuggets need lots of time to shine, how come they failed yet again in the 1st round playoff, besides finishing behind the Rockets in the regular season last year?

    Man, you are all over the place.

    Well duh, who isn't a fan? But being an NBA fan doesn't qualify one as a good writer/columnist on NBA. Bill Simon is neither a stats guy like John Hollinger whose statistical work are worthy of citation in many serious NBA discussion, nor someone like Charley Rosen who could offer in-depth analysis on teams and players when on top form. Bill Simon is inept even in basic NBA concept (see below). His incoherent rambling sure serves the fans of BSPN well.

    Where is Kelly Dwyer when you need him?

    Alright, enough opinions (although my opinions are well reasoned and backed up by facts), let me get to the horrific conceptual error committed by Bill Simon. The following table is the number of wins for each team predicted by Bill Simon in the pre-season and 3 weeks into the seaon:
    Code:
    Team	Pre-W	Rev-W
    PHO	64	64
    DAL	57	54
    SAS	56	56
    CHI	56	42
    DEN	56	50
    DET	50	52
    BOS	49	62
    HOU	48	46
    NJN	45	41
    MIA	43	40
    NOR	43	48
    MEM	42	35
    UTA	41	50
    MIL	41	34
    GSW	40	30
    LAC	40	38
    IND	40	38
    ATL	40	38
    CLE	39	45
    TOR	39	43
    WAS	39	29
    LAL	37	43
    ORL	36	44
    PHI	36	30
    NYN	32	39
    SAC	28	25
    CHA	28	26
    SEA	25	18
    POR	24	32
    MIN	17	14
    total 1231    1206
    In a full NBA season, each team plays 82 games. The number of wins as well of the number of losses for all 30 teams should add up to exactly 1230 (or 30 (teams) x 41 (win or loss)). Not 1231, not 1206.

    If you don't know those numbers have to add up to a precise, pre-defined checksum, you shall not be in the business of putting them out in your article on one of the most read website.

    Barely over a month into this season, Bill Simon pulled stuff from his rectum not once, but twice. I said it before and I say it again, Bill Simon is a moron. There is no other way to put it.

    Anyone else to defend him?
     
    #11 wnes, Dec 7, 2007
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2007
  12. SmeggySmeg

    SmeggySmeg Contributing Member

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    who cares about his accuracy, his writing is amusing and entertaining, and has a strong fan based perspective (as a resulted opinionated, which one would expect a user of this BBS would appreciated considering the way everyone gets annoyed if someone say the most tiny thing negative about the rockets), if you don't like it don't read it
     
  13. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    By the same token, Clutch fans should have no problems with Bill Ingram's articles on Hoops-World. Ingram may be off in his predictions on NBA transactions, but who cares, right? I am sure Ingram has his share of large fan base. If you don't like 'em, don't read 'em. No?
     
    #13 wnes, Dec 7, 2007
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2007
  14. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Even in light of Rockets' 10-win streak (before last night's game), Bill Simmons still thinks Houston is the team which may miss the playoffs this year.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080223

    Did someone from the Rockets steal this guy's lunch?
     
  15. macfan

    macfan Contributing Member

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    What the heck does he know? He is a fiction writer. He's not a basketball expert. His job is to entertain.
     
  16. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    To entertain Rockets haters?

    Why being knowledgeable and entertaining tend to be mutually exclusive these days?
     
  17. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    I actually agree with him. It's still going to be one of those 3 teams that fall out. I can't see any of the teams ahead of us not making the playoffs, but the Rockets have a tough stretch in March which could push them out. Or an injury.
     
  18. macfan

    macfan Contributing Member

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    If you want to be entertaining these days you have to feed the stereotypes and exaggerate them to the Nth degree. You have to feed common (mis)perceptions to the masses of readers. The stereotype that pundits hold is that Yao is soft and McGrady is a loser/complainer/soft.

    If the ordinary ESPN sports fan believes that Santa Claus exists, you have to talk about Santa Claus

    So a lot of times being knowledgable and entertaining are mutually exclusive.
     
  19. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    For one of these three teams to be out of the WC playoffs, someone else will be in as a sure thing. Who are those "everyone else" (in Bill Simmons's words)? Which team are you talking about here? Warriors? Blazers? Sacs? How in the world are they belonging to WC's elite 8 more than the Rockets, Mavs, or Nugs?

    Or could it be possible Bill Simmons doesn't even know how to count to 8?
     
  20. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    I actually misread. I didn't notice he puts the Mavs in that group of three (I think it will be GSW, HOU, or DEN). I don't know what he means by "everyone else". Confusing sentence.
     

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