1. Cato sucks and is gone...right? 2. Cato might suck so bad we get no big man trade value out of him 3. Dream is not the future. 4. Mo' will likely shop himself, might not stay. 5. Webber wants to play in New York more. 6. We won't get a starter BIG man in the Draft 7. Collier just might not be ready for a break out year. Does it scare you to wake up in October 2001 with Mo' gone and no Webber? and no trade that succeeded using Cato as good beef. When I get like this, I want to scream at those saying we need a small forward. Just call me scared. I want to call CD and remind him that I can take our SF leaving, but he better use every phone call to address the above scary frontline scenario. Because if that happens, we are in serious trouble...small forward or not! sorry achebe, I know you are psyched. But I just ... oh, damn, Doc Rocket hasn't posted in awhile ... I'm feeling nervous, and my oeilpere pill didn't come this week. *sigh* [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited April 07, 2001).]
heyparty-Does this excite you? 1.) Cato could still have value, especially with the zone. Think Timmy Floyd in Chicago will use his old zone, that was anchored by one Kelvin Cato back in the day, and wouldn't mind having him back at a cost of nothing but some cap? 2.) We still have some lotto balls and a chance. What if Yao Ming supposedly isn't going to be available, and falls to us, where we then pull a Colangelo-Tsakalidis? Since we'd be under the cap, we could actually pay China as much as we need/want to get him released. 3.) Big men like Antonio Davis, Marc Jackson, Brad Miller, and Nazr Mohammed are on the market. 4.) If Mo leaves, and we miss on Webber, we're left with a wad of cap. Guys like SAR, KVH, and Sheed, as well as other big names (Paul Pierce was mumbling things about Boston last week) could be available. multiple picks, and cap space up to over 10 mill will help in acquiring. 5.) The draft can produce strange and wonderful things, ESPECIALLY this one. If CD/RT sense a situation like you describe, we have the means (extra picks, space) to bump up into good position. Troy Murphy/Michael Bradley should be around close to, if not at where we pick, assuming Troy comes out. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.
2.) We still have some lotto balls and a chance. What if Yao Ming supposedly isn't going to be available, and falls to us, where we then pull a Colangelo-Tsakalidis? If Yao Ming doesn't get approval to play in the NBA next year, then he won't apply for the draft, so he won't be eligible to be drafted. Since we'd be under the cap, we could actually pay China as much as we need/want to get him released. The CBA only allows an NBA team to pay a maximum of $800,000 to buy out a players contract from another league. In Tsakalidis' case, Phoenix paid $800,000 and Tsakalidis had to pay the remainder of his buy-out. ------------------
Heypartner: I agree that we need a quality big man more than a SF. Problem is, I think there are more quality SF's available than big men... and I'd rather have a decent SF than a crummy stiff. I'd rather play donut ball a la Phoenix, than have some idiot take a few million to pull down 5 boards a game. I mean... when push comes to shove would you rather chase SAR and Pierce... or Antonio Davis? ------------------ I would believe only in a God who could dance. - Friedrich Nietzsche [This message has been edited by haven (edited April 06, 2001).]
Since Webber wants NY, and may get a 3-way trade through Detroit to get there... ...then we keep Maurice Taylor for about 6 mil per. So we need rebounding. We can address that with Marc Jackson and drafting a tall, athletic small forward. Maybe Cato has sulked and got 0 PT because he knows he's leaving anyway, say, to Chicago along with Walt or Los and our picks. I won't say we'll get Brand, but that #1 pick. It makes some sense. With the Rox #13 pick (probable), the Bulls can get Jamaal Tinsley. Tinsley, Fizer, Cato, and Tim Floyd. Reunited. I like it. Especially in exchange for a pick that could land us Eddie Griffin. If Jason Williams comes out, Chicago should grab him if possible. Maybe they have eyes for Eddy Curry. It's be nice to dump Cato. I hope the market exists for him that Clutch mentioned when he posted about the deals that didn't happen. ------------------
aelliott-I've searched, and have come up empty. I'm almost positive that teams under the cap can negotiate for more than that 800K that the NBA allows, but it counts as cap space. The Coon FAQ says nothing either way. Though, it is probably true if China says not right now, he wouldn't enter. We haven't had a Doc Rocket nugget in ages. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.
Don't be scared. "ME and Steve will lead us the lottery." Signed, Cat you out of ------------------ Respect Hakeem's legacy. A championship in the hand is worth two in the bush!!
HP: Still, who would you want to trade for? Hypothetical: The cards fall our way in the draft, and we manage to pick up Battier or Jefferson in the teens... who would you try to trade? I'm not sure either of those players brings much alone... and I *really* don't think anybody wants Cato or Williams. Brad Miller is the only (barely) adequate center I could see us getting for that. And I'd rather have Battier or Jefferson. ------------------ I would believe only in a God who could dance. - Friedrich Nietzsche
heypartner: I'm glad you brought this up. I too am bothered by all the wind put into getting a SF on this board when what we need is a quality big man to defend the paint and attack when the guards are doubled... Or create his own s*it. Obviously, CWebb would be the ideal choice. And despite all the recent negativity on the BBS lately about the prospects of getting him, I still think we have a good chance. We are one of the few teams that will have the $, we have the type of team he is looking for (perfect, really - an awesome backcourt and no big men except Hakeem + bench to compete with in the paint), and the type of town he's said he's looking for. I personally think our chances are still good. And if not then we retain Mo for the time being (hopefully). We've got 3 SFs right now: Bull, Walt, and SA. Shandon is better at SF as he likes to charge / drive rather than shoot (he is NOT a shooter), even though he can swing. Shandon's defense is also invaluable. Bull might retire - who knows. I'm not worried about him. Walt really isn't as bad as many here think (his #s are still close to Quitten's), but he's definitely tradeable. But without a powerful, hi-scoring / rebounding big man who is athletic and motivated, we'll never get to the championships. NEVER. Screw making #8 next year - I want to see this team in some conference or league finals next year. A new SF might get us #6-8 next year, but only a good big man will get us all the way or close to it. Keep SA and Hakeem for realistic $, lose Mo, get CWebb - something along those lines... Fokass. Fokass on the needs of the team, not the desires of the posters. We NEED a quality big man; a star SF would just be an added bonus. I have confidence that Rudy & CD understand this. They'd have to like this: C - Hakeem, Collier PF - CWebb, Kenny SF - Shandon, Wiz SG - Cuttino, Lanky PG - Steve, Mooch +++ This changes the roster very little, and it puts everyone where they ought to be, with an extremely flexible backcourt and a very powerful starting frontcourt. IMHO, of course... Cato has to go, though. I have never seen such a capable big man try so little. ------------------
Heypee, I had the same thought more than a month ago when everyone seemed so confident webber would surely want to play in houston next year--and I was flamed for it! But *sigh* I guess the heavy weight BBSers are finally coming to the shocking realization that the rockets are not the only team in the world FAs want to play for. But I shall make a new declaration! The rockets will sign Shandon and Mo first then Hakeem for the minimum if he is willing to play for that. Then they will have a good draft. They will try to move walt but will not move cato unless they are sure to get another center. KBM ------------------ I am an invisible man.
I remember ZRB posting something similar to this and getting flamed for being so pessimistic. I guess it's all about timing, he made his comments right after a loss so ppl were pissed with him. I'm confident we'll have Mo next year. I mean he said he wants to return, Rudy says he wants him to return, what's stopping them from making a decent deal for both sides? I'm also pretty sure Cato will be gone too. He might not be traded for much, but he'll be traded for sure. He's obviously worn his welcome with the Rockets. If we get no big men this offseason (which I doubt), I'm still confident in having Dream start with Collier as the backup. Collier got hit hard with injuries and for a brief time he actually showed alot of promise. Hopefully he's not a Los clone and he'll stay healthy next year. ------------------ Early man walked away, as modern man took control, Their minds weren't all the same, to conquer was their goal, So he built his great empire, and he slaughtered his own kind, He died a confused man, killed himself with his own mind.
I had typed a totally happy go lucky Pollyana thread, but I realized in hindsight that I was ignoring your point... that there are things outside of the Rockets' control. OK heyp, I'm scared now. But I'll try to pull myself out of it. What are the real needs of the team? PG and SG are the strongest spots. At PF, the team has KT and perhaps a verbal committment from Mo. Center and Small Forward are perhaps the most glaring needs. I'm not as afraid of the Center position merely because TheCat keeps telling me that Collier is the bomb. No, actually... I'm not as afraid of the Center spot because there are bodies that can be plugged into the 5. Mediocrity floods the Center spot in the NBA. So the biggest holes are at 4 and 3, with no offense to KT. What can really happen at four on draft day? Murphy or Bradley? I like Murphy, Bradley seems like hype, IMO. This, though, isn't something that seems safe to stack w/ rookies on draft day. This is by far the strongest position in the WC. We need a veteran at the four. I'm gambling alot, but I say if the team ignores Webber... they will get Maurice Taylor's signature on a contract on July first. We'll actually know for sure on draft day... Rudy didn't screw around with Courtney Alexander, so a PF pick up will be very telling draft night. I'm betting that he doesn't pick up a rookie PF though. So of course I get my small forward. I'm not particularly fond of the small forward position, but I do dislike Shandon Anderson's "the meek shall inherit a starting spot" philosophy. Let's throw caution to the wind. What do three picks get you on draft night (Orlando willing)? Three contracts. Three rookies. This team is pretty fetching young. They don't need youth. Alvin Jones at 22! Yippee! Haywood or White perhaps at 13! Yippee! This is crap. The team doesn't need rookie role players. This team doesn't need to mortgage the next season (i.e. Cuttino and Cat's time) on training rookies how to win or lose. Lottery teams spend time training core rookie pickups on how to win or lose (short of acquiring Duncan of course). This team needs a solid pick up on draft night. A difference. That could be a veteran PF, an amazing leader like Battier or a veteran SF. I just can't see the Rockets walking away w/ three new contracts. I also can't see them risking a moment for potential when there are suitors for the picks offering much more stability. IMO, something bold will happen draft night. I'm probably full of malarky, but I'm betting that an aggressive move will occur on draft night, one that will signal something other than an offseason of Webber. If I'm wrong, just make it big and get us Webber. Oh yeah, and thank RRNYC for helping me manage my expectations. ------------------ \../
Achebe-I think you may be onto something in the rookie department. Something bold will happen, probably with a team needing a change. Denver doesn't have its pick (Boston), and definitely needs some changes. Chicago probably needs to blow up half their roster, again. Could this be the year that CD ignores his past and goes with an underclassman? What about Vancouver? They're in high water, oweing a pick to Detroit. But HEB-Do you think we can win it all next year if we fall short of Webber? Would getting a couple of rooks that'll settle in in 2 years necessarily be worse than acquiring a veteran that will start his down cycle in 2 years, but put us in a slightly higher seed now? One thing I'm feeling sure of: Rudy and CD won't trade down. My guess is they'll be trading up, or out. Can't help but do a quick speculation: Would Cato and our lotto pick land Lafrentz and Posey? I think it would. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure. [This message has been edited by NIKEstrad (edited April 07, 2001).]
Heypartner, I've got an idea on how to calm your fears. We mainly, just need a strong, dominating defensive presence in the paint. A presence that could completely cut off all penetration for easy lay-ups & dunks. A presence that would always be looking to defend the paint & have no fear of Shaq, Kobe, Iverson, Carter, so on & so forth. A presence that is aggresive, hungry, energetic, & always on alert for anyone that might intrude into the paint. A presence that is always able to slow down & actually disrupt a 4 on 1 fast break. The proposal that I'm about to submit is assuming that we can't get Webber & are stuck with Cato again next year. As a side benefit, the presence that I'm talking about could actually cause Cato to improve his rebounding on the offensive end of the floor, because even his evil stare would not intimidate this presence. I checked the Coon FAQ's on the CBA (not really) & couldn't find anything that would prevent us from putting the defensive presence that I'm referring to in the game. My suggestion is that we get 3 of the biggest, meanest, & ugliest Rotweilers (3 rotweilers should equal the weight of one center) that we can find & chain them to the base of the goal with just enough length to allow them to patrol the paint. That'll stop any fast breaks & penetrations. We'll be able to get all the defensive rebounds, because the oppostion wouldn't dare go into the paint. But our guys would, because they would be the ones that feed them, except for Cato. We leave Cato out of the feeding ritual, so that if he continues to be the last one up the floor, we can let out enough length of chain for the dogs to chase him down to the other end. Of course, we would never let them catch him. After all, I don't hate him, I just detest his effort level. I can see it now, Cato running down the floor yelling "Whoooo let the dogs out?". I know, I'm sick, but when I thought of this, I couldn't stop laughing. Maybe, I should try to get a life. Hope this helps calm your fears. ------------------
Just to add to your wonderful idea Hottoddie... Maybe the rotweilers should have bees in their mouths, that way when they bark they shoot bees at you. ------------------ Thoughts?
That doesn't scare me, it depresses me WHat scares me is the idea that Hakeem will come back next year to play for another team. I can see him reaching back in the past and torching as for a quadruple double just to prove a point. ------------------ "The man who goes alone can start today; but he who travels with another must wait till the other is ready." -HDT
Nikestrad: I actually think that CD will probably be inclined to take a 4 year player now more than ever. Why? Because there might be some gems available in the mid-upper lottery. With all these highschoolers declaring, some players with great college careers are going to be pushed back. I bet the Rocket's management is drooling at the chance to get these guys. Normally, I don't think they give enough looks to underclassmen.. but this time, an older player might be best. ------------------ I would believe only in a God who could dance. - Friedrich Nietzsche
haven-very true. I can't see them passing on Woods, Battier, or Haywood at #13 (assuming we keep the pick), but I expect them to look at the junior big men-Murphy and Bradley in particular. Bradley isn't very athletic, but a terrific scorer and rebounder down low. He had a sick .692 FG% this past year, and didn't get it by just overpowering (6'10'' 240). But, I'm hoping they don't reach for someone and pass on a high potential underclassman player (like Rodney White) to get a senior (Johnson/Jones). I expect them to go for a senior with their other 2 picks. ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.
