Does the idea of no God(s) and no afterlife trouble you?

Ummm yes, ever heard of philosophers?! They are always in some way troubled with this question. Socrates posited it as, philosophy is learning how to die.

 

I've never been too bothered by things that are beyond my control. And this is a perfect example of that. It's not like getting depressed over it gives me a greater chance of having life after death. Whatever happens, happens.

Now, being an atheist, what would bother me is the existence of Heaven and Hell. Because then I'd be spending eternaty in Hell wondering why I had to be an atheist in life.

 

I think it only troubles you if you truly believe that there isn't an afterlife. The main basis for most religious beliefs is faith, and faith cannot exist with constant doubt. With that said other aspects of my faith (Christianity) do trigger some rare feelings and thoughts from time to time... mainly trying to fathom the raw power and God and eternity.

 

If there's no afterlife, when you die, that's it. It's finished. Over and done. I can deal with that - that's nothing more than Biology. I'm more worried about HOW I die. And I'm also slightly worried that how I live the rest of my life won't be enough for me to get into Heaven. What if my best still wasn't enough and I have to spend eternity in hell for it???

 

If dying is like the flicking of a switch, then that would trouble me. But a general part of eastern philosophy is realizing that your life is meaningless before you can find actual meaning. I guess the only certainty is to live life to its fullest.

I also believe there's something fundamentally wrong to spend eternity for your actions, heaven and hell, for actions in the timespan of .000001 percent of the known cosmos.

 

it does no bother me. I just cannot understand it. But i can also not understand eternity. So i do not know what i fear more Eternal life or death. But because i cannot do anything about it anyway it is no use trying to figure it all out. We Humans are just not smart enough to understand these things, so why bother trying, the only thing you get out of it that way is a depression trying to understand the things we cannot understand.

 

If you understand death as the total abscence of sensory input you'll have no fear of it. By definition it is neither positive or negative. Getting to that point could suck though.

Living a life that has more negatives than positives would be worse. There are a large percentage of people for whom death is a release from constant torment.

Life is of ultimate importantance to those that are aliive. We should aspire to all the passion and fullfillment we can. Sublimating ones life for the promise of an afterlife is a waste.

That being said, we have to also understand that man has an inherent moral compass developed from his genetic make-up and social development that provide guidelines for behavior the self deems acceptable. I'm pretty convinced that the real Hell is a guilty conscious. Living a life the self finds moral is the first requirement to find happiness.

 

It would strongly bother me for the following reasons.

1. It would mean Jesus is the biggest liar the world has known.
2. It would mean Jesus resurrection was a ingenious hoax.
3. It would mean Peter, James, John and every other direct witness to His resurrection were the next biggest liars the world has ever known.
4. It would make the Bible garbage.
5. It renders the human conscience to a place of insane derangement. If there is no future judgment then there is a unexplainable twist in the conscience of humans. Whenever someone does wrong they experience guilt in there conscience even when they are not caught. This means that the conscience is warped beyond possible rational logic because no one should feel guilty if they get away with a wrong unless there is a future sense of judgment built into the conscience of man. Why would I feel guilty for stealing something out of a store when I am 7 yrs old if my parents don't know about it?

I could go on with the list but I am tired.

I do not feel my conscience betrays me. I do not believe the Bible is full of lies and deceptions, I don't think the early witnesses to Jesus resurrection are criminal liars and I don't believe Jesus was teh greatest of liars- that would just about crown him the devil.

 

exactly my sentiments.

 

It would also make them criminally stupid for no perceivable reason considering every one of the disciples you mentioned died horribly violent deaths for sticking by their witness of Christ.

I don't know anyone who would die a violent death for something they KNEW was a lie.

 

If there was an afterlife, I truly believe that at least one of my friends who has died over the past 20 years (about 8 friends in all) would have come back to me and said "DUDE! It's one hell of a party here! C'mon! Kill yourself and let's party like wildmen!"

Since none of them has done that, I believe that once you die, you are wormfood.

 

What a killer post! Bravo 2U Dubious! Bravo!!!!

 

If you're not living life to its fullest extent, it's an opportunity wasted. The difference between what you perceive life is and what it is in actuallity is what limits you.

What is life? The Bible says that God is life.

 

Not true. We are just too fixated on our concepts of ourselves. There is no permanent "you" to begin with. "You" is always changing never the same. "You" a part of something larger and always have been, even before your so-called birth. Our ego makes us think were a something else.

What was your face before you were born?


"Look at these waves on the ocean. [Thay draws on chalk board.] Wave Number One, Wave Number Two, Number Three, Number Four, etc. To live the life of a wave is very hard. Each of us is a wave. There is a certain moment when you believe that you were born, and there must be a moment when you will die and will no longer be there, right? These are the things that continued to assail us every day. "I did not exist before that. I will vanish completely after that point. I am. Before that, I was not and after this, I will not be." These ideas, you are not free from them, and they create your fear and your whole block of fear in here, and you become a philosopher.

Second question, "What can I do to be like the other waves?" He is so superb. He is admired by so many other waves. Why God has created me as a small wave and he a big one? So jealousy, discrimination, are born here and you want to become a revolutionary. You want to make everything equal. So, the ideal of high and low, more or less beautiful, all these things continue to assail you as you continue to live the life of the wave. You are not solid; you are not free. But there is another dimension of you that you have not touched. You have touched the dimension of waves. It is called a historical dimension, where there is birth, death; up, down, being and nonbeing, but you have not touched the other dimension that I mentioned, the dimension of the water. So you go down to yourself. You get back to yourself, to your true home, as a way of your looking for your true home. You want to arrive, but you never arrive. Your true home is right there, into you, the water.

It is possible for a wave to live the life of a wave and to live the life of water at the same time. That is our practice. We have to live our ultimate dimension right here and right now. And it is by going back to the here and the now that we can touch the ultimate dimension, our ultimate dimension. Looking from the phenomenal aspect, you see a wave, and each wave is different from all the other waves. There is a self, there is nonself. But when you get down to your true home, water, you are no longer afraid. As water, I can never die. There is no high, no low; no more beautiful, no less beautiful. How wonderful. Water is the true nature of waves, and at the time you realize that you are water, you become solid. You become free. No ideas, no fear, no craving can assail you anymore.

In fact, water is available to the wave 24 hours a day. The ultimate, God, is available to you, nirvana, the world of no birth and no death is available to you in the here and the now. You have to trust. You have to surrender to the ultimate reality. God is your true happiness. Enjoy God 24 hours a day. What you are looking for, the kingdom of God, the Pure Land, the true home is in here, if you know how to breathe in and go back to the here and the now. If you train yourself to be solid, to touch deeply life in the present moment, you touch the ultimate reality, also. You are cultivating the Kingdom of God; you are cultivating your solidity and freedom. The ultimate is made of solidity and freedom. As I said, nirvana is made of solidity and freedom. If you have these two elements, you won't suffer any more. Birth is okay; death is okay; small is okay; big is okay. No longer any discrimination, because you dwell in the ultimate."

~Thich Nhat Hanh

 

Maybe you just don't truly understand his message. He said the Kingdom of Heaven is inside of you, right freaking now, while you are alive.

 

I thought the Nicene Council took a vote and decided once and for all that there was indeed a God. That's good enough for me!!!

 

Mr. Meowgi- Let me give you the exact verse so you will understand better what you are trying to say-

Luke 17:20-21 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

the kingdom of God was the salvation of God received through Christ, not heaven.

I do understand his messge. I have studied it and preached it for 25 yrs. You have referenced only two verses out of the entire Bible.

I respect your posts and I don't want to sermonize, but I believe what you posted below is inaccurate.

If you want me to list scripture to back that up I will.

But maybe you don't truly understand His message.

How much have you read of the New Testament? (Please be specific)

 

Mr. Meowgi

To be fair- I would grant you that the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God could both be used to describe the salvation that a Christian posses in his soul.

But I would not say that those Bible verses are decriptive of Heaven. Heaven, the afterlife and hell are explained fully elsewhere in the Bible. You should consider that there are ample scriptures that speak specifically, logically and directly to the question of Heaven and the afterlife.

Let's also read those.

 

Along the same lines, as a Muslim, the Qur'an and the Sunnah tell me that Allah is real, and I accept that without question.