Do you Agree? - Bomani Jones implies Steph Curry no superstar, 'best system player' ever

Duh. This question has been rehashed several times. Curry is not that player to carry a team on his back. Without Klay thompson and point forward draymond curry not to mention a ball hawk KD his game is very limited and relies on a lot of off ball screens and flares.

 

So basically without 3 of the other starters in his team ( 1 of them being and mvp himself, and the other 2 all stars) his teams sucks and he cant carry?
Are you even reading what you type?
Curry is a generational player, his shooting alone is a game changer. GS offense is only enabled because of him and his infinite range and efficacy.
Basketball is still a team game, and Curry only impacts one side of the game, as his defense is terrible. I think he is the kind of guy that either gets WAY overrated or way underrated by fans, depending if you are a hater or an admirer.
He is an alltimer and i cant possibly understand why theres people that feel different about him.

 

Nash was going to be my analogy too, BUT Nash makes everyone else better. I'mnot sure Steph does.

 

My take was he isn't a pure point guard, never was, never will be.

But his off ball movement and spacing makes the system run better thus everyone gets a better position to score.

Klay does the same thing.

And I do not recall him ever demanding touches on or off the court, may be I am wrong, that is also what helps building the foundation of a team.

And it is not coincidental that spacing and shooting are the most valued things in this era.

 

Dumb argument. He's a bonafide superstar and would succeed with his playstyle anywhere.

 

Yes, he wouldn't be as much of a winner as he has been with three other superstars and the Warriors' motion offense.

I don't think that makes him trash outside of the system though. If anything he'd put up bigger individual stats, just wouldn't win as much.

I don't think he can carry a team though. You can take him out of the game by playing him physical and focusing on him.

 

The question posited in this post was whether he is a superstar as defined by jones as a guy who can win championships for a team. This isn’t clearly defined by jones but from what he says it seems as if he is arguing whether curry is a player that can lead and carry a team to a title. The answer is a flat out no. I stand by it. Look at his woeful performance early this year before the injury. He simply isn’t that guy much like how kyrie irving isn’t that guy. No one doubts his shooting ability and all star accolades but it is simple. You take away those key pieces is curry a guy that can score consistently on his own? Can he still get the looks that he gets? My point is his game is very limited compared to players who have been put in a position to lead and carry teams and i put harden in that category of elite players that can get any shot they want regardless of the pieces around them. Draymond green handling the point creates several opportunities for curry to spot up and shoot through flares and offball screens. Klay Thompson draws a lot of attention since he is an elite generational type shooter himself. Much of curry’s success has been because of these two players in a system that maximizes his skillset which is shooting. He does not drawing double teams and triple teams because of dribble penetration or elite post game. So no he is not harden, KD, lebron or even dame dolla. Stop comparing him and placing in this elite level because he does not belong in the same conversation. If you do not agree with me them simply watch the game tape.

 

No one is saying Curry should not win without help. I’m saying if a team has a superstar then the team shouldn’t be expected to be crap if the team isn’t stacked, much less he still has multiple all star type players as support.

 

How about AD and CP before him in NO? How about guys like Kobe without a great big man? They aren't superstars by your definition. Only a handful of players in the history of NBA could be called superstar then.

We don't even know if Duncan or Shaq was a superstars. They never had a crappy team around them during during prime. What would LeBron's crappy Cleveland teams look like if they were playing in the West?

And what would the pre-Durant Warriors look like if they did not have Curry?

 

A lot, as long as he team wasn't relying on him to be a primary option. His skillsets would mesh with most teams that aren't asking him to be carrying it.

It went 6 games because the other team had a superstar on the roster that can still ball even when surrounded by the likes of Delladova.

Forgive me while I laugh at a comment noting Green is an offensive liability but Thompson isn't.

You are making the mistake of assuming their skills don't translate to other teams, and seem to be crediting other players for their individual success.

I didn't make an error. I said "You saw Dream drag teams to the playoffs literally every season". This is true. The year he missed was due to him missing 12 games.

Are you referring to the 2015 team that had uber talent around him and also faced an injured opponent in every playoff round, that lost to LeBron the following season when he wasn't having to rely on support like Delladova?

True, because the 2015 team had so much talent on it, that you keep trying to discount.

On stacked teams, where he never had to deal with the type of attention or pounding that say, Harden does? I still recall G3 of the most recent Finals, when Curry had to carry a Harden type role. He had 47 and then faltered the next game, with everyone making an excuse about how it was so tough for him to have to carry that type of load.

If Harden had Klay, Green, Iggy, Livingston, etc and Curry had Ariza and Beverly then I'm sure "Harden" woulda got the nod.

 

I've always said AD is overrated. CP3 missed the playoofs his first two seasons in NO (when he was 20 and 21) then made it the next two years. He only played 45 games in his final season there.

He still made the playoffs.

Superstars by my definition. No matter who they are surrounded by the team isn't expected to be bad.

 

Not really. His skillset meshes with offenses that have good catch/shoot players. Remember, he's not getting teammates open. They're getting open on their own and he's making timely passes.

It's both. Cleveland had Lebron, but Klay/Draymond underperformed.

It's common sense. If you're close to the basket, then taller you are, the easier it is to score. I'm not sure why you find that funny.

Why don't you detail what you think Draymond Green's skillset includes? That'll make this an easier discussion.

So because he missed 12 games, that doesn't count as a season? Ridiculous. You made an insignificant error. Do you really want to argue it when you're so very clearly wrong? Just acknowledge it and move on.

Yep, that's the one. Look at the finals stats. Klay and Draymond underperformed. Curry carried them.

That, and their system. I think most superstars would jump at the opportunity to play alongside elite shooters in a selfless system.

I'm not discounting their talent. I'm just putting it in the proper context.

You're wrong again. You made an exaggerated statement and got called out on it. Just own the mistake and move on.

Doubt it. Harden would mesh terribly with Klay/Green. Harden likes a clear paint and plenty of space to operate. He wouldn't have that with Klay running around. And Harden needs the ball in his hands which offensively neuters Green.

 

1. 
   Following the 2004 season, Shaquille O’Neal was traded and Phil Jackson temporarily retired, leading to an underwhelming 2004-05 season for both the Los Angeles Lakers and Kobe Bryant.
   
   Kobe missed 16 games, and the Los Angeles Lakers failed to make the playoffs for the first time since 1993-94.
   
   It wasn’t a good start for Kobe in his attempt to lead the Lakers as the team’s alpha dog.
   
   https://bleacherreport.com/articles/830807-kobe-bryant-ranking-his-15-nba-seasons-from-worst-to-best#:~:text=Kobe missed 16 games, and,as the team's alpha dog.

 

A guy can be overrated and still be a superstar. A lot of people agree that AD was overrated. But was he still a superstar?

LeBron's didn't do squad last season. Was he a superstar then?

 

Green woulda flourished in Houston and we don't have great shooters.

And other players upped their play, such as the other all-star and all-league player that was taking a 4th option role who won the MVP (Iggy).

Riddle me this. If Curry lost his 2nd and 3rd options would GS have even gotten 1 game? If you think the likes of Green and Russell are garbage then how would you expect him to ever win anything, even a quarter of play, with what LeBron was surrounded with?

Just because you are tall does not mean you aren't an offensive liability. Any tall player can make wide open dunks.

He can defend 4 (arguably 5 positions), play small ball C, pass and hit enough 3's to allow you to play him at C. And those skills will mesh anywhere, especially in today's league. He is not one you can rely on to carry a team but that's not the discussion. He's great support.

If Hakeem is on your team you are not expecting to suck. He will make the playoffs regardless of what's around him as long as he isn't hurt. Is that better?

I also note you had no response to Curry being held in the same regard as Dream, when you say I shouldn't be comparig him to him or players held in that regard.

He didn't carry them. The series swung when they put Iggy in the starting lineup. Go look at his stats from that point on, which don't even highlight his defensive impact. They were down 2-1 prior to that. It's why he got the MVP.

False. You keep missing the concept of Curry not having to carry the burden or getting the types of defensive attention that someone like Harden does because he has so many other options on his team.

Harden would mesh terribly with Green but he meshes just well with the likes of Gordon and Tucker. Ok.........

Harden doesn't need the ball in his hands. He's great off-ball, just like he was in OKC when he didn't have to dominate possessions. He has to do that here because he isn't playing with the type of talent Curry is.

 

I don't consider anyone a superstar as far as on the court impact with the track record AD had.

LeBron got hurt last season. The team woulda been in the mix with him. He has a proven track record of carrying underwhelming casts.

 

I bolded the important parts. Kobe got hurt and they missed the playoffs. This was not expected. LA was still expected to be ok, even after losing Shaq, because they had a superstar on their team. No Shaq, no great 2nd option, new coach...who cares. We got Kobe and we should be ok. We weren't, even thought he got hurt, underwhelming.

Now compare that to what was expected of GS this season, with Curry still having Green and Russell and great coaching,

 

It's actually not vague at all, look at the teams Harden and Lebron have taken to the conference and NBA finals.

 

Can you elaborate on how that would've worked? Because when Harden doesn't have the ball, he tends to not do much. And when Green doesn't have the ball, he doesn't do much either.

Absolutely. Look at the stats from the 2015 finals. Klay Thompson was non-existent for a few games.

And Iggy didn't deserve that FMVP. Look at the stats. Curry had one bad game (game 2) which the Warriors lost. Other than that, he was a beast.

Exactly. And that's why Tristan Thompson isn't an offensive liability around the rim. And Draymond Green is.

Wrong. He shoots 30% from the 3pt line. Defenses would game plan to force him to shoot 3's. Also, the stats are deceptive. Draymond is worse than 30%. After a few misses, his confidence is broken, and he refuses to shoot anymore, even when he's wide open.

Yes, that's better.

Curry isn't a floor-raising superstar. He's a ceiling raiser. For instance, I think a Curry/CP3 tandem would fare better than a Harden/CP3 tandem.

When Iggy came off the bench, he averaged 35 mpg. When he started, he averaged 39 mpg.

Iggy got the FMVP b/c he far surpassed his expectations. But objectively, Curry was more important for the Warriors' success.

But in those 3 games that Iggy started, he averaged 20 ppg (48% fg% and 41% 3pt), 7 rebounds, and 4 assists.

In those same 3 games, Curry averaged 28 ppg (49% fg% and 45% 3pt), 5 rebounds, and 6 assists.

For the entire series, Curry averaged 10 ppg more than Iggy (2nd highest on the team). Has there ever been a finals champion where the high scorer (by 10 ppg) didn't win FMVP?

You're kidding, right? When Harden doesn't have the ball, defenses ignore him. When Curry doesn't have the ball, the defense always adjusts to overplay his area.

That's Curry's gravity

Gordon and Tucker can shoot 3's. Draymond Green can't. It's as simple as that. Harden wants to be surrounded by guys who can catch and shoot. Draymond doesn't fit the bill.

You're kidding, right?

 

I thought the Dillard vs Steph comparison was apt could Dillard replace Steph and still win those championships? (yes)

Could Steph take those teams farther, I don't think so, Dillard is a much better finisher while steph has more range and slightly better shooter.