I don't necessarily think you can compare the two sports in this manner. You need to compare the situations. Artest reacted poorly, attacked the wrong guy and incited a riot. In baseball, the fans aren't in as close proximity to the players as they are in basketball. Still, there have been instances of both fans and players drastically crossing the line. Albert Belle drilled a guy in the chest with a baseball because the guy was heckling him. Francisco Rodriguez(I think) threw a chair into the crowd last season. Two fans rushed a Royals coach a few years ago. In all of those cases, the individuals at fault were punished. I don't think the scene last night is necessarily what everyone is making it out to be. The contact very well could have been incidental from the poor footage I've seen.
I think because I didn't read the other thread, I might have missed what the real issue is. People don't generally think of black baseball players as thugs, but some think of basketball players that way. I think that may be because baseball players historically seem to come across as better behaved than basketball players.
AB there's a huge difference in scale between the two incidents. Artest, Jackson, O'Neal, et al went into the stands for an extended period of time and brawled. The fans and the players were rightly villified. Sheff got punched by a fan, who was clearly in the wrong (as the media has reported), yet he restrained himself, which was commended by the media. I don't see a double standard here.
After reading the article, I think the whole heating up the rivalry thing is because it didn't get too far out of hand. If it had happened in that manner at a basketball game, with someone on front row.. say between two big rivals. lakers and celtics back in the day or something.. youd have people talk about heating up the rivalry. when you get as far out of hand as artest did though. it's just too far gone to even think about rivalry.
There is also a difference between one isolated incident and a lifetime of purposely living a life that glorifies thuggery, drugs, crime, violence and sexually deviant behavior. See your latest Ludacris CD for examples.
I don't think this incident is similar since Sheff didn't retaliate except to push the guy back some and continue with the play. But, I do agree with your overall point AB. I mean, before the brawl at the Detroit game, there had been like 2 or 3 recent incidents in MLB where players fought with fans or with grounds keepers. When that happened, there was absolutely no talk that matched what we heard about the Basketbrawl. In here, you had jackasses saying things like "this is what happens when you have a league full of thugs" and what not. They said it was bound to happen, we shouldn't be surprised. The thing is, these incidents have happened in the other sports, mainly baseball and hockey already, while it was a first for the NBA. To me, the commentary from some people just reaked of prejudice. Some of you think this is directed at you and are arguing about how you called out the fan and what not. This isn't about you, this about the people who said it was the fault of NBA thugs, aka black guys. The people who never bothered to discuss other player vs fan fights because they knew it would expose their true feelings. These people would keep blaming the fight on the background of the players and never talk about other brawls because it would make this fight just another fight, they needed to blow this one up to epic proportions.
What I don't understand, is how the play is allowed to continue with Sheffield getting punched in the face by a fan. I was so pissed when I saw the fan take a swing at him, and the umps made it worse by not even calling it fan interference. The umps were really out to get the Yanks yesterday though, what with the phantom tag to get the game off to a bad start.
really? do we know the facts here? i've seen the video countless times and i can't say whether the contact was interntional or incidental. all we know is his arm was hanging over the side of the rail. was he trying to impede sheffield, hit him, grab the ball, or perhaps just gesturing to his buddy, which is how it looked to me? we are all jumping to conclusions of rightous indignation, or worse yet, charging racism, w/o even the most basic understanding of whatactually occurred. this is deplorable behavior on the part of the media, yankees, fans, and posters in this thread who have crucifued this guy. wait for the facts, please.
Yup, you are right about that one. Too bad Ron Jackson and Tito Francona got thrown out by the montrosity umping behind the plate in Greg Gibson or you may actually have something there, Hydra. I agree with mc mark completely on this - the guy is a punk and makes all Red Sox fans, especially the ones who can't ever get a ticket look bad. He should never be allowed to come back inside Fenway and as much as I dislike Sheffield (I didn't like him before he joined the Yankees - he just strikes me as very arrogant), I respected the way he handled himself in that situation.
You are right, to a degree, basso about not knowing all the facts. But anyone who goes to a major league baseball game and has been for years (apparently like this guy says he has done) knows that when you reach out to try to touch the ball, you are going to be called for fan interference, most likely. The Red Sox were lucky that Varitek wasn't sent back to 2nd base and given credit for a double. The problem is that we will NEVER know the true story as it will be one of those "his word against his word" deals. The bottom line is that this stuff needs to stop - fans trying to interfere. It seems like every night when they show baseball highlights, there is always some moron who has to try to reach over the fence and catch the ball before the fielder who actually has a play on it can get to it. Is a home run ball that valuable? The only way I can see it being that valuable is if it was like Barry Bonds' 715th or 756th homer or some other homer that breaks a baseball record.
I don't think the fan purposely hit Sheff. On the replay he was looking at his buddy at the same instant his arm swiped upwards. The dude next to the woman purposely "spilled" his beer on Sheff. He should be beaten.
AHA! Pipe sniffs out a TRICK QUESTION! Of course not, because given Padgett's recent shooting prowess, or lack thereof, he would wiff on the shove attempt!
Come on Manny, you, I, and the Red Sox bench know that you can't argue balls and strikes. Unless they want to switch to a computer calling the pitches, both sides have to live with the home plate umpire's strike zone. IIRC, one of them got tossed arguing the wrong way against the ESPN K-Zone dohickey. Torre also had problems with the strike zone, but didn't go over the top and get himself tossed. The fact is, there were two blantantly wrong calls in the field (that I saw) and both of them went the way of the Red Sox.
But the K zone clearly showed that pitch to Sheffield was a strike which meant the end of the inning and Boston up 4-1 instead of trailing 5-4. My point is that you can't act like the Red Sox got all the calls. Sure they got a break with the Womack play and probably with the Sheffield thing in RF (although that was one of those things that happened so fast that it was easy to miss), but it is pure folly to insinuate that the Yankees didn't get a break either. But that is the way it goes, most of the time - both sides will get breaks and also will get jobbed.
worth mentioning that if this had involved any other two teams, it'd be a quick mention on sportscenter and end of story. Yankees/Red Sox blows the whole thing out of proportion.
i've seen the replay atleast 10-15 times and i can't see how the fan is going for the ball.... the dude gives a half ass bend to get the ball in the first place.... he seemed like he wanted to distract Shef rather than get the balll... i would'nt call it a punch...rather he got in his way with a sissy slap or somethin.... and Shef had all the right to push this guy... i woulda knocked him out...though i would also know that i make 10-20 million or whatever ball players in Shef's category make. the fan should be fined not the player.... i agree with Another Brother... though its not the same as the Artest situation.... he was hit by an unknown person....and he went INTO the crowd...and THAT changes the cirumstances.
