I want you to try this little mental exercise. Here’s a few quotes from last season that I pulled from various publications. They were all written about the same player. I’ve removed the player and team names from the quotes, just to make them less specific. Most of you will know right away who the quotes are refering to, but while your reading them, see if these things sound familiar around here. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ So it was evident that he would have to be dominant in all phases of the game, especially in the fourth quarter, in order for his team to win and go deep in the playoffs. But for some reason, xxxx has deferred to his role-playing teammates to make the plays to win ball games. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ After Game 1 of the series, I listened to xxx's response to (* PERSON *), who criticized him for not being aggressive in the fourth quarter. His response was that he felt somewhat guilty if he didn't pass to a teammate when the situation called for it. That answer tells me that xxxx has missed one valuable historical lesson: It is more important for your teammates to respect you than like you Great players make something out of nothing and they do it at the expense of their teammates' feelings. How many times over the years have we watched Jordan, Bird, Magic, Isiah, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq and Kobe take shots that we questioned in our minds but understood why they took them? If you poll all of these great players' teammates, I would guarantee that they were not all liked on the court but were well respected. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ xxxx took some criticism during the playoffs last season. TV analyst (* ANNOUNCER*) and others said xxxxx was such a selfless player that he was hurting his team by not demanding the ball late in games. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Still, people keep finding fault with xxx One Western Conference coach said his game is filled with "empty numbers." Pippen (more of a swingman than a true forward, but then, in a way, so is xxxxx) says xxx's numbers are "not measuring to enough wins," and that "he has to take his game to a Magic [Johnson] level." During (* TEAM *)'s three-and-out playoff series against (* OPPONENTS *) last season, everyone from (* PERSON *) to (* PERSON *) to ... me ... found fault with xxxxx, or at least questioned why his versatility does not translate to playoff victories for his team. See, it's an easy question to raise, but a difficult one to answer. Perhaps xxxx should, as Pippen has suggested, move to shooting guard, though in that case his rebounding numbers would go down and he'd be criticized for that. (And it's not his decision anyway.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ You point to the one shot xxxx attempted in the final four-plus minutes of (* OPPONENTS *)' 101-94 victory on Sunday. You point to the solitary rebound bucket he registered against (* OPPONENTS *) in the final six minutes of Game 1 in last spring's opening round. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ All of which helps to explain why this is really the first time xxxx is getting microscoped coast-to-coast. There have always been occasional protests in (* CITY *) and (* CITY *) about xxxx being too willing to defer late in games or maybe even doomed to a lifetime of sidekick status, a la Scottie Pippen ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (* TEAM *) general manager (* GM *), on the eve of Game 1, acknowledged that "if we lose again, there will definitely be some concern: 'Can these guys do it when it counts?' " Yet his tone was much different afterward, when (* GM *) launched an impassioned defense of xxxx's efforts to make the right plays with the (* TEAM *)' no-mistakes playmaker, (PG), out injured. "In AAU, they must not teach passing anymore, because no one can throw it into the post," (* GM *) said. "If I played on this team, I'd have slit my wrists already." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Webber. after reading the first paragraph...... .....but on a later thought and after reading adjoing paragraphs.... then I must say it is KG.
This is what I got out of all of that. If Yao Ming doesn't start demanding the basketball late in games, the Rockets will never get out of the first round of the playoffs.
Garnett was the first person that came to my mind. It'll be interesting when aelliott fills in the blanks.
It's Garnett I cheated and googled a line from the article mentioned and it popped up the article exactly.
Yes, the subject of all of those quotes is none other then KG, the newly crowned MVP. What was the point of posting it? I thought it was interesting that a number of people seem to think that since Yao isn't as assertive as we'd like right now, that he'll never change ( you know, that whole "it's not in his personality" argument). The same type of complaints were being made against Garnett just last season, so I wouldn't give up on Yao just yet. If you read the quotes, some of them are actually more severe than anything that has been said about Yao (Pippen says he should be a guard? Ouch!). Does it prove that Yao will develop into an elite player? Of course not, but it does show that he can. How many teams truely have a player that could develop into a top 3 to 5 player? Not many, those guys are extremely hard to come. So, if your agument is that Yao will never be a franchise player, then you need to be able to explain where you intend to get a franchise player before dismissing Yao's potential. If it took Garnett until this year to prove himself, maybe Yao should get more than a couple of seasons, because if he does, the payoff is huge. Here's the unedited quotes and links to the sources: So it was evident that he would have to be dominant in all phases of the game, especially in the fourth quarter, in order for his team to win and go deep in the playoffs. But for some reason, Kevin has deferred to his role-playing teammates to make the plays to win ball games. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After Game 1 of the series, I listened to Garnett's response to Magic Johnson, who criticized him for not being aggressive in the fourth quarter. His response was that he felt somewhat guilty if he didn't pass to a teammate when the situation called for it. That answer tells me that Garnett has missed one valuable historical lesson: It is more important for your teammates to respect you than like you Great players make something out of nothing and they do it at the expense of their teammates' feelings. How many times over the years have we watched Jordan, Bird, Magic, Isiah, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq and Kobe take shots that we questioned in our minds but understood why they took them? If you poll all of these great players' teammates, I would guarantee that they were not all liked on the court but were well respected. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Garnett took some criticism during the playoffs last season. TV analyst Magic Johnson and others said Garnett was such a selfless player that he was hurting his team by not demanding the ball late in games. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Still, people keep finding fault with K.G. One Western Conference coach said his game is filled with "empty numbers." Pippen (more of a swingman than a true forward, but then, in a way, so is Garnett) says Garnett's numbers are "not measuring to enough wins," and that "he has to take his game to a Magic [Johnson] level." During Minnesota's three-and-out playoff series against Dallas last season, everyone from Barkley to Kenny Smith to ... me ... found fault with Garnett, or at least questioned why his versatility does not translate to playoff victories for his team. See, it's an easy question to raise, but a difficult one to answer. Perhaps Garnett should, as Pippen has suggested, move to shooting guard, though in that case his rebounding numbers would go down and he'd be criticized for that. (And it's not his decision anyway.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You point to the one shot Garnett attempted in the final four-plus minutes of Dallas' 101-94 victory on Sunday. You point to the solitary rebound bucket he registered against San Antonio in the final six minutes of Game 1 in last spring's opening round. You point mostly to the Wolves' perfectly blemished 0-for-5 history in Round 1, including a 5-16 overall record that has supplanted New Jersey's 10-31 mark for the worst playoff winning percentage -- a Mendozian .238 -- in history. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All of which helps to explain why this is really the first time Garnett is getting microscoped coast-to-coast. There have always been occasional protests in Minneapolis and St. Paul about KG being too willing to defer late in games or maybe even doomed to a lifetime of sidekick status, a la Scottie Pippen, in spite of the richest contract on the NBA map. Only now, it's a national story ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wolves general manager Kevin McHale, on the eve of Game 1, acknowledged that "if we lose again, there will definitely be some concern: 'Can these guys do it when it counts?' " Yet his tone was much different afterward, when McHale launched an impassioned defense of Garnett's efforts to make the right plays with the Wolves' no-mistakes playmaker, Terrell Brandon, out injured. "In AAU, they must not teach passing anymore, because no one can throw it into the post," McHale said. "If I played on this team, I'd have slit my wrists already." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nba/johnson/2002-04-30-johnson.htm http://www.charleston.net/stories/022303/spo_23garnett.shtml http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/sports/5694421.htm http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/jack_mccallum/news/2003/02/12/insider/ http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2002/columns/stein_marc/2002/0424/1373291.html
I guess it right after reading the first paragraph. Anyway, there is no comparsion here. The expections for Yao and KG are so different. KG was criticized while putting 24 ppg 14 rpg, 50FG%and 6 apg because he was expected to be MVP-like in 2002-2003. In no way did we expect Yao to produce such numbers. Yao's 15 ppg 7 rpg 45% FG and 1 apg are being criticized because these numbers suck for our "franchise player', "the second best center in NBA" or "the player we should surround with role players" etc etc. Yao sucked in the playoff or last two months or so. Period!
its funny, the more i read the more i had a feeling it was KG, but my inital thought was nowitski. he passes up shot after shot, and of the 3 buzzer beating attempts the mavs had in the playoffs this year, he only took one. how is he supposed to lead the mavs doing crap like that, and how is yao supposed to lead the rockets when he defers to franchise.... demand the ball YAO!
Do people forget he is only in his second year, and that was his first playoff appearance? Not only that, he had to go up against the the most dominant force in the NBA? It's only a matter of time people, he is only 23 years old. Once he get comfortable with knowing that he is the man on his team, he will be able to be more consistant. He's been that man before on the Sharks (as his numbers indicate) and whenever he plays on his national team. I' am not saying he will become the next coming of Dream but I think he will become that 20pt +, 10 rpg type of player on a consistant basis.
im not asking for him to make every shot, and rebound every miss. im not asking him to dominate the game like shaq does, although i thought he did a good job against shaq throughout the entire series. what i do want yao to do more is to demand the ball, and let his teammates know he wants it.
good thread. foresight requires patience, which few of us have. i think yao will be the man, maybe as soon as next year, but maybe i'm just a homer. being voted all-nba third team however, means there is a lot of objective opinion out there that he already is.
Just to set the record straight, Yao has done better than you gave him credit for. 17.3 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 51.8%FG and 1.5 apg were the final numbers for Yao. While not spectacular, I think Yao has made significant progress this season. IMHO, Yao is the kind of players you want to be patient with because you don't run across too many 7-6 center who has skills like him.
Phil Jackson has pretty much nailed it on Yao's progress: He will make steady progress each year and you won't see quantum leap in his stats within any year (as compared with previous season).
Geez, so you're saying that Yao sucks because he can't compare to a 6th year NBA superstar who has been in several playoff series. It's amazing how many people writing off Yao because he has not put up numbers resembling the likes of top players, even if this is his 2nd year in a foreign country playing a foreign style of basketball for him. After all, we all know how little time it takes for foreign players to adapt to the NBA. Dirk certainly became a superstar instantaniously. Peja certainly didn't need any time to establish himself.
You make a good point, and we'd all be pumped if Yao becomes "that 20pt +, 10 rpg type of player on a consistant basis." I think he can. What I'm more concerned about is the Wall he appears to hit late in the season, when his play matters most. He clearly isn't the same player he was earlier when he had his wind and his legs under him. How many times did we see Yao miss point-blank (for him) shots that he was making earlier in the season at a 60%+ clip? And he frequently wasn't geting rebounds he grabbed earlier in the year, either. Or block shots the way he could earlier. Yao had the occasional good game late, but his production overall was a disappointment. And that's when your franchise player should be turning it up, not running on fumes. The Rockets need more control of how Yao spends his offseason. We have a huge investment in this guy and will be making decisions this summer based on who will surround him. I'm worried, long-term.
so whats the point? becaue KG did it Yao is going to? hey, lebron james came in as a hs player and dominated, so JR Smith and Livingston and Telfair and everybody else is going to as well, right? the differnce between KG and Yao is huge. KG has a basketball body and loads of talent, while his teams weren't winning series he was putting up big double doubles. Yao was not dominant or really above average in the playoffs, at least not when you consider the fact that he was given the ball consistently over the course of the five games. will yao blossom into a consistent great player, hopefully. do i feel that he is as likely as kg was three or four years ago? absolutley not.
