Didn't D-Rob stuff the Dream twice during the final moments of a game once, years ago? The first was a lob that was horribly wide off the mark (passed by cassell? smith?) and Hakeem caught it five feet away from the basket and tried hoisting that rock. Out of nowhere comes the Admiral, swatting it away out of bounds. The next play had Hakeem 20 feet from the basket trying an ill-advised shot, strangely remniscient of a '50's set shot, only to have "lil' merm" stuff it back in his face. The spurs escaped with the victory. Didn't this happen or was i undergoing a nightmare? Anyone? Anyone? ~Radical subjectivity~
im sry, but Dream, in my opinion, is better then shaq, in dreams prime and shaqs prime, dream would beat him, i kno shaq was young but, Dream killed him in the finals, but i gotta say Hakeem= best center ever shaq= really close 2cd
*buzzer* Awful analogy. Bullard over 82 games earns a few blocks, largely by accident/or his height in no way or shape or form compares to two back-to-back clutch defensive moves in a tight game in the least. ~Primal Subjectivity~
Drexlerfann22 should be here in a second to clear this up... Seriously, you are underrating Wilt, Kareem, and Bill if those are the only two centers you would consider for the greatest ever.
Didnt Kelvin Cato stuff Shaq two or three times in the last few minutes of a Sunday NBC game where Houston upset the Lakers.
I think I remember a single redirection of a hook shot, but nothing like a "stuff," and nothing more.
I will give you Wilt, Russell, and Kareem. But Shaq? Thats a stretch. He has no competition at his position, unlike the others at their time.
I'm not so sure about that. Wilt and Russell never faced a big man with the offensive arsenal that Hakeem had. Hakeem would run circles around them.
Wilt was an athletic monster, and Kareem had an 'unbeatable' sky hook. Russel and Dream would be an excellent one on one match up. Without his superior teammates to back him up, Russel would bear the brunt of defending Dream's agile steps. They're both under 7 feet, but Dream has the reach. Russel would have a better court savvy.
JOKE!! I was simply saying you can't judge a player or players by a couple of plays alone. However, you CAN judge a matchup by a string of games, say, just for example, a six game stretch in mid-1995.
No comparison... David an outstanding NBA player. Hakeem The NBA's best ever all round big man, bar none.Incl Wilt and Bill.
Wilt, even when he was old and slow at 340 or so pounds, did quite well against a young Kareem, and even managed to block his sky-hook a few times (but then again, so did Hakeem ). We could go on and on about match-up differences, how the game was different, and all that. But no one ever gets anywhere with that, so let me just do a quick comparsion between Wilt, Shaq, and Dream. I'll talk the most about Wilt, because he's the one that most of you haven't seen. ATHLETICISM: Shaq has frequently been held up as being very athletic, and he is. But he doesn't touch Dream or Chamberlain. In his younger years, Hakeem had the speed of a SF, and outran and outjumped almost all competition, perhaps excepting Robinson. Wilt was a sprinting star, and ran the 100 meters in under 10 seconds. He also had, at 275 pounds out of college, a 55-inch vertical leap (no one seems to believe me on that one). His athleticism suffered further into his career when he put on more pounds, until he was 340+ in his last year with the Lakers (the year he shot 72.7%). SHOOTING: Uh... Shaq can't shoot. Period. He has a what... 5-8 foot range on that baby hook, if we're being generous? Hakeem's shooting range improved year-by-year, until his dream-shake could burn people from 15 feet out. Wilt also had a jumper out to 15 feet. His favorite shot was the Tim-Duncan-soft-jumper-off-the-glass. POST: Shaq is able to use his pure strength to muscle through defenders and get easy dunks, or a very short hook. Hakeem did not have the benefit of overpowering weight, and instead used his quickness and finesse to royally confuse his opponents. His post moves were among the trickiest and most difficult to defend that the league has ever seen. Wilt's post game was good on almost any standard, but he did not have all the finesse moves Hakeem had. He tended to simply shoot over defenders with his great leaping ability and good height. In his later years, his post game developed further, leading to his higher percentages. He had Shaq's weight in that stage, and even developed wickedly fast spins, much like Hakeem, that got him easy dunks. DEFENSE: Shaq can block shots with the best of them. However, he generally will not guard his man if he is farther than ten feet from the basket. For all his athleticism, Shaq can't keep up away from the basket. Hakeem could guard anyone, from a quick forward to a bruising center, away from the hoop and directly under it. He not only wracked up blocks but steals as well, absolutely unheard-of for a center. He was certainly one of the best defenders at center the league has ever seen. Wilt blocked an insane number of shots (17 in his first game) and Earl Strom says that he got "about 8 a game." (And yes, there was a goaltending rule when Wilt played). Early on in his career, he could keep up with anyone away from the basket, but became a little more Shaq-like as he gained weight. REBOUNDING: Shaq is an accomplished rebounder (it helps that they let him go over the back) with his great leaping ability and good nose for the ball. Hakeem was a great rebounder, even leading the league for a couple years, using his great athletic ability and all-around sense of the game. Wilt put up bizarre boarding numbers (career 23 rebounds per game), even against Kareem, Reed, Lanier, Embry, Kerr, Cowens, and Russell (he actually set the single game record against Russell with 55). His height and leaping ability made him one of the best rebounders ever. So Wilt vs. Shaq is easy: Wilt was stronger, more athletic, a better shooter, a better rebounder, and played better defense. WINNER: Wilt Shaq vs. Hakeem: Hakeem wins for athleticism, post moves, defense, and shooting. Shaq has more pure power and we'll call the rebounding even. Especially since Hakeem killed Shaq in the Finals, this one goes to Hakeem. WINNER: Hakeem Wilt vs. Hakeem: Wilt was more athletic, a better rebounder, and far more powerful, while Hakeem gets the nod for better post moves. The shooting was about even, while defense is probably another draw, although that one is especially difficult to call. A close game overall, but Wilt pulls it out by overpowering Hakeem, while still being able to shoot out to 15 feet. Hakeem would have trouble with a guy that is both bigger AND more athletic. WINNER: Wilt
Was Wilt stronger than Shaq is now? That's really hard to believe...Shaq is a beast. Shaq throws 280-300 pounders around like ragdolls, I don't think Wilt had to face anyone as heavy as some of the centers are today (Sabonis, Reeves, MacCollough, etc.) Granted they're very mediocre centers, but 300 pounds is 300 pounds. BTW, how did they measure verticals back then...it's just about impossible for a guy of Wilt's size to have a 55 inch vertical...that means he'd be able to jump up and touch up to 14 feet? That's superhuman. Note: I am in no way supporting the fact that Shaq is better than Wilt, I'm just curious about some of the comparisons in your post.
I've posted this before, but yes, Wilt was stronger than Shaq, at least in the points of his career when he was getting heavier. Wilt once grabbed a telephone pole with both hands, then extended his body totally horizontally to the ground. Not sure how long he held it. Bob Lanier says his most vivid NBA memory is being picked up by Wilt. Wilt was posting, and calling for the ball with one hand, then he "sneakily" picked up the 250 pound+ Lanier (Lanier claims he was 300 pounds by then) with the other hand, while still facing away from him. Wilt then moved Lanier back a few feet, put him down, recieved the ball, and dunked on him. That was in one of Wilt's last 2 years, when he was as massive as Shaq is now. In 1984, about 11 years after he retired, Chamberlain did the movie Conan the Destroyer with Arnold. Wilt was then 45. Arnold will testify that in their work-outs, Wilt was benching 450 pounds, and doing sit-ups with 250 on his chest. Remember, this is well past Wilt's prime. As for leaping ability, Wilt used to jump and grab money that fans put on the top of the backboard. Wilt was also one of the big reasons the league outlawed jumping at the line. Why? Because in high school, Wilt would stand just behind the free-throw line, take one step that put his foot right on the line, then dunk it. No run-up. Bing! Made free-throw. Think if Wilt was shooting 100% at the line instead of his dire 55%. If you want to see what Wilt's hops look like, buy his book, A View From Above, where he has a good picture of himself jumping at Kansas. Anyway, the 55 inch vertical really isn't that hard to believe. Consider, Jordan's jump coming into the league was somewhere between 44-46 inches, and he wasn't a long-jumping champion like Wilt was. At 275, Wilt was about proportional to Jordan. Then consider that even though Wilt was huge, that also means he had very long legs, and that helped him get up there. I'll stress again that it wasn't like he was both of these things at the same time... with the Warriors he had the crazy speed and hops... with the Lakers he was obscenely heavy and strong. He couldn't have possibly jumped 55 inches when he weighed 340. Of course, he was still very strong with the Warriors and had serious hops and speed with the Lakers, but those were 2 different Wilts.
Wilt Chamberlain , Hakeem Olajuwon , Shaquille O'neal , Bill Russell , and Kareem Abdul Jabbar are all in a class of their own. In my opinion, and a lot of others , Wilt Chamberlain is the greatest basketball player ever, so he would be the best center ever of course . But after that it is probably too hard to rank the other 4. Its impossible to compare guys from different eras. So if I had to rank them : 1. Wilt Chamberlain 2. Hakeem olajuwon 2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar 2. Bill Russell 2. Shaquille Oneal
Which Wilt do you think was the better basketball player, Drexlerfan22? The 55 inch vertical just seems amazing to me. To this day, there are only legends about guys like J. R. Rider getting a 50+ inch vert. I believe you about his display of strength in his later years, because the guy was huge in his later years. He even looks bigger than Shaq.
