cRaZy cLuEs on ROCKET!!!'s trade trail

First of all, ROCKET!!!, I'm sorry it took me so long to take you serious, and to realize you might have inside sources on possible trade scenarios this summer. Thank-you very much for giving us some fun puzzles to figure out, along with your insights on possibilities.

A number of us have been having fun trying to figure out what trades that ROCKET!!! says are being seriously considered by Rocket's brass. I didn't get into the game until a week into his hints. So, I decided to pull up all his posts, and provide them for everyone, so you could come up with your own scenarios. Perhaps by looking at them all at once, we can come up with what he's saying a little easier, than reacting to them one at a time. (I had to edit out some of his posts, since a post can only hold 30000 characters. I didn't know that...

<b>5/20:</b>

Houston trades:
Rice, Collier and #1 to Clips
Cato and #15 Pick to Memphis

Clips trade:
Kandi and Brand to Houston
Send #8 and #12 picks to Memphis

Memphis trades:
Battier and Swift plus #4 pick to Houston


Houston gets:
Kandi, Brand, Battier, Swift and #4

Clips get:
Rice, Collier and #1

Memphis gets:
Kato and #8, #12 and #15 Picks

<b>5/20:</b>

I agree with your premise, but the trades must be realistic while still using the power of a #1 and #15 in your pocket as well as the quality of the "tradeable/value" players you have while dumping unwanted contracts. I have looked at this from about 100 scenarios and I do not see any way to dump all our unwanted contracts (Cato, Rice, Taylor, Norris) in one shot. The best to hope for is one or two. Three would be simple fantasy.
Now it is possible to make further trades down the line to dump the remaining least desirable contracts at a later date.

For example, lets say you target your worst contracts as:
1) Rice
2) Cato
3) Taylor

Which two have the greatest poosibility of getting moved in one shot while packaging them with the picks and your tradable players with value (i.e. KT, Morris, etc.)

Lets look at facts here.
1) Rice has no value. To trade him you must include another player with value as well as your best pick - #1. Nobody will take on Rice with out the number one and a replacement.

2) Cato has little value. Other than Morris, we do not have much another team would want with Cato. So unloading Cato and Rice in one shot is not very likely.

3) Of our big contracts, Taylor is the only player that represents SOME sort of reasonable value. (This is not saying he is great or even good, just that he does have value) Packaging Taylor with Morris is a very attractive package if picks were included.

Simply stated, I think it is quite realistic to hope to move Rice and Taylor with the #1 and #15 picks, but you will also have to give up players in the process (KT and Morris).

For example:

Would you trade Rice and KT plus the #1 to the Clips for Brand, Kandi the #8 and #12 picks.

Then Trade the #8, #12 and #15 with Taylor and Morris to Memphis for the Battier, Swift and the #4.

(Just an aside, this is a viable trade under the CBA)

This would satisfiy your unload prevision and two quality player provision as well as a pick, but you still are going to have to give up solid players in the process. Nothing is for free even with the power of the #1. Granted, with the #1 we should get more from the trade, but no team is going to gut their roster for a single player or pick. They must get replacement value in the process.

<b>5/20:</b>

I just heard a radio interview in which Jerry Krause and his desire for Ming was discussed. It was stated that Krause tends to fall in love for certain picks. That guy this year happens to be Ming. The point was made that Krause would be willing to trade Curry and the #2 for the #1. Of course we know that we would have to give equal or more cap back to Chicago.

But what is really interesting here is this falls in line with my example above.....

Houston still sends:
Rice & KT and the #1 to the Clips
Taylor, Morris, the #15 pick to the Grizz and forgives the second round obligation owed to us
Collier to Chicago

Clips still send:
Brand & Kandi to Rox
#8 & #12 to Grizz

Grizz still send:
Battier, Swift & #4 to the Rox and forgive the first round obligation owed to them

In addition to that Chicago sends the Clips Curry for not drafting Ming.

(This still works under the CBA)

Everybody walks away with something:

Chicago gets the player it is salivating for....Ming as well as a back up with Collier.

Grizz get to solidify their PF/SF positions and get picks #8, #12 & #15 in a very deep draft and their second round pick back

Rox get Kandi, Brand, Battier and Swift as well as a #4 pick to get either Dunleavy or Butler and their first round pick for next year back

Clips get KT, Curry, Rice (a contract that will be two and out and provide HUGE cap room for them...something Sterling loves) and the point guard they have been coveting for years...Jay Williams.

Everybody wins in this trade. Yes, the Rox do well, but we do have the #1. That is a huge chip.

NIKE,
You can not tell me you would not do this. We would be solid in just about every position two deep.

Francis/Norris
Cat/Battier
Dunleavy or Butler/Griffen
Brand/Swift
Kandi/Cato/Collier

My GOD, thats AWESOME!!

<b>5/20:</b>

I wasn't really trying to propose or construct a deal....it only worked out that way. Thing is, I ended up having to make a viable deal in order to make my point.

1) I want quality for the #1
2) I want to shed SOME (no way you can dump them all) heavy contracts.
3) Nothing comes without a price. (In this case the #1, #15, a second round pick, Taylor, KT and Morris)

Honestly, I know it is a MONSTER deal, but looking back on it, not one of the teams gets screwed. All do very well....even Chicago!
I tried to not be a homer in putting it together.

You know the more I think about it, Memphis and the Clips walk away in pretty damn good shape. Three first rounders in the top fifteen in a deep draft plus Taylor and Morris. You know Jerry West would be all over that. Clips have little or no fall-off (Brand and KT only have a 4 point differential in scoring/Curry is younger and has more promise than Kandi) and get a NBA ready point (Williams).

How did I do that???

<b>5/21:</b>

I rarely do this type of post, but something is really bothering me about the whole Yao Ming deal. At first I couldn't quite put my finger on it. I think now I have a greater vision as to what is going on and MORE IMPORTANTLY what may happen in the future. I am not talking about predraft future, but long-term.

Here are my thoughts:

1) The whole - is Ming the real deal (read franchise player) - does not really concern me. That is always going to be a gamble with ANY player taken at ANY position in the draft. ABSOLUTELY no player is a sure thing....even Jordan. There are way too many variables to take into account with a player coming into the NBA (EG. Does he have the TRUE NBA skill level?, Is he physical enough?, Can he take the punishment?, Will he get injured?, etc., etc., etc.)
NOTE: This is only from a guarantee of a draft pick perspective...meaning is any draft pick a sure thing. This does not mean that I am unconcerned as to whether Ming has the skills. That is a completely different subject (see the later portion of this post).

2) The issue with the Chinese Government and working out the political particulars also is really a none issue in my book. It is in everybody's best interest to bring Ming to the U.S. in any location. I guarantee this will be worked out post-haste. I further believe as Stern is seeing his Market share/ratings shriking in the U.S., the NBA marketing machine will kick into high gear to promote Ming here (read plenty of TV time) as well as in China.

3) Current influence of Sharks' management and ownership also are a none issue. These guys will fall in line with whatever the Communist Party leadership tells them to do (read: Party line here).

4) There is no doubt in my mind that the amount of money Ming will make is not an issue. Do you really think the Chinese Government gives a rat's ass if Ming makes $5.0 milllion or $6.0 million (other than from an eqo perspective that their pride and joy should make more because he is one of theirs). I think the Chinese Governement will get by just fine without that extra $500K. (Again, they know they have to work within the rules of the NBA, but they will push come renegotiation time whether Ming has earned the big money or not)

MY MAIN CONCERN IS THIS:

What happens to Ming in the future? The ego perspective statement above really gets to the heart of the matter. The Chinese Goverment and the Communist Party are all about play/propaganda. They want the most exposure that will provide the biggest ego boost for the Chinese people. "See how these poor capitalists need our great players to make their game great; See how the great Communist Party can produce better players than the U.S. even at their own game; etc., etc., etc." (fill in your own anticapitalist statement here)

NOTE: I am not bringing this point out as anit-Communist or anti-Chinese. They will do exactly what we would in any sport that is not our national pastime in which we happen to place an athlete (eg. Lance Armstrong - now we are at the top of the cycling world with a few Tour wins....yea right! Want to buy a bridge in Brooklyn?).

The guys in the Chinese Government are smart. They know they have to play by the NBA rules regarding the draft. But five years from now they own their own future with Ming. He is as free as a bird to go to any team he wishes. If he is the real deal and he does not get the propaganda/play (not playing time) that they desire. Houston will be nothing more that a training ground for Ming because he will be NY or LA bound in a heartbeat.
The only caveat to this will be if we win championships within our allotted timeframe (5 years of Ming). Then Ming is staying put. (See the Americans needed our man to GIVE them a championship) Though they know this is not 100% accurate, it will play very well back home.

The point of all this is: Will Ming Really ever be ours? Will the eye always be on the big market prize? Will Ming answer to us or Chinese officials?

These more sublime issues and guestions are what have been bothering me. They took me awhile to figure out. Combine these with the number one question, "Does Ming HAVE the skills?" and that leaves me with only one thought..... TRADE. This is one of the few times that I would ever even think of trading a #1, but I honestly believe that this is one of the few times that the pick is worth more in trade value than draft value. The sole reason for this is because we hit the jackpot on the perfect draft year. There are two clear #1 draft picks and many teams are salivating over one or the other. Chicago/GS want Ming; the Clips wants Williams; etc.

We can get so much more than most are hoping for (No not Duncan, Kobe, Shaq or any other frachise player). We could easily combine picks and players to make us rock solid for years and give us a legitimate shot at several championships. We already have two players that could lead us to a championship (Francis and Griffen) once they mature and are surrounded by other filler players. We have the opportunity to not just get those filler players, but add one maybe two other palyers that reach the quality level of Francis and Griffen. What if we added Brand or Battie and drafted a Dunleavy or Butler with a later pick. Collectively, we would be so much better off. Yes, we can afford to make the MING mistake (if it is one) and continue down our corrent path, but we can most definitely leap frog our improvement time table (similar to acquiring Francis and Griffen) to a greater extent with a series of quality trades. (See my earlier post in this thread for a few examples)

There....
Okay, I feel purged now.
Thanks for lending me ya'll's eyes for a while.

Whatever happens......

GO ROCKETS!!!

<b>5/25:</b>

You forgot this trade.....

Chicago sends Curry to Houston for the rights to Ming and its obligations for two second round picks
Chicago sends its #2 pick (Jay Wiiliams) to Clips

Houston sends Rice, KT and Collier to Clips

Clips sends Kandi, Brand #8 and #12 to Houston

Future trade:

Houston sends Mo T, T MO, #8, #12, #15 to Memphis and releases Memphis from its second round obligation to us

Memphis sends Battier, Swift and its #4 to Houston

Starting rotation:

Kandi/Curry/Cato
Brand/Swift
Griffen/#4 (Dunleavy or Butler)
Cat/Battier
Francis/Norris

<b>5/25:</b>

These deals look great, but you forget an important added factor that must happen for them to actually go through....we must move at least one large contract and at least one smaller contract possibly two for this scenario to fulfill cap requirements. The only ones that I see making this happen capwise is Rice, KT and Collier. My guess is that the Rockets also would want a little bit more than just Odom and Curry plus a couple of picks for Ming, KT and Others.

Here is my thinking...
History has shown that the #1 pick commands a significant return. The perfect example is the Webber Hardaway trade.

Webber for Hardaway and three first round picks. That is a HUGE payout. That would be similar to Ming, KT and filler for Odom, Brand, Curry and two first rounders. Just speculating here, but my guess is the Rox are going to ride the #1 pick for all it is worth.

Anyway....
With any trade requiring us to unload one of the big three lame contracts (Rice, Mo and Cato), I would consider any of these scenarios a big upgrade to our team.

<b>5/26:</b>

I know Ming may be great, but I still want Brand and Curry with a SF pick more.

<b>5/26:</b> (Nikestrad thread)

From my sources, it looks like a decision has already been made. I pray they are correct. If so, we will have an incredible makeover for next year that will put us in the upper echelon for years.

<b>5/26:</b>

HP,
I'm with you on Odom. That deal screams for a different player. The prob with that is...that it requires us to push speculative deals further down the line. Those maybe agreed to in priciple, but may not come to fruition once the first trigger is pulled. If locked in though, how could one possibly pass that up?

Ah well, it never hurts to continue to have faith. Fathers D, T and A know best!

<b>5/25:</b>

Isn't Tyson Chandler's jersey number 3???

<b>5/26:</b>

Now that would be funny! Poor Stevie.

Anyway, I don't want anything either Cleveland or NY are sell'in.

There is a reason they both suck sooooo badly. We had major injuries on a 47 win team without EG. What is their excuse?

Pass!

<b>5/26:</b>

(GregM) Any Knick trade is unreasonable because NY doesn't have anybody the Rockets need. If Houston trades the rights to Ming, doubtful, it would be a blockbuster.

Greg M hit the nail on the head.

<b>5/26:</b>

RRG,
Anything from NY is not even worth considering!

GS only has Jamison and the #3. Is Jamison a 3 or 4? We already have a young stud named Griffen that fits that bill.

Trailblazers are a mess. They have no cohesion because every guys on that team has a bad attitude. They can keep them all.

The Clips......ah the Clips. The demands for the pick are obvious here.....BRAND, Maggette picks #8 and #12. With a draft as deep as this; a trade such as this is a winner. Butler, if he falls, at #8 and maybe a project at #12. We could also package the #8, #12, #15 & #38 and move back up and grab another SF if we wanted to.

The Clips are our best bet. It would undoubtedly cost us KT and other players in the process, but sometimes you have to sacrifice to make a move.


NOTE: Notice I didn't mention Odom here. Why? Do we need Odom if we can draft a quality SF in the draft especially with Grif filling the SF position part time?

<b>5/26:</b>

oeilpere,
Long time no chat.

I can confirm much of what you are hearing.

The organization is not enamoured with GS after last year. The old what goes around comes around deal! LOL

NY is a complete no go to the point of laughter. Man, are they begging at this point or what????

Chicago, but not exactly what you have posted....less of a trade than more an agreement for rights.

Clips.....
That sounds more like the prelim talks than what is current. If they are back to that stage, the Clips can go jump in a lake! Odom for the #1 and Griff....What are they high or something! I think that would be more than a little backwards for a #1 pick trade.

The last I knew of Odom was not involved, but a bigger prize was on the table. KT was gone in this iteration. This one and Chicago are the best to date and this is just week one! Wait until 14 days from now when the prizes become much larger as we move into the bonus round! LMAO!

Funny, but I am not really worried about the initial trades - if they go through. My concern is the subsequent trade that MUST occur because of an overload at one position. It would not be hidious to go into the season with this situation, but it may slow team development. Typically, it is not great to reload during the middle of a season....Umm....Oh wait! Didn't we win a championship that way???

<b>5/26:</b>

Lets just say PF/C is looking pretty good right now as is SF if we draft the guy we want (Thanks Jeeves!).

<b>5/26:</b>

(Manny Ramirez) pops and ROCKET!!!:

Thanks for the update and posts. Do either one of you know how the Rockets feel about Nachbar??

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

If we don't pick Ming, then we better damn well

(a) get Caron Butler
(b) get great value for that pick (sorry Lamar Odom, by himself is not great value..not even sure if Odom + Kandi is either).

Curry is intriguing, but I agree with NIKE in that EG will become the better player than Chandler.

Also, does either one of you know if the Grizzlies have been talking to CD/RT?

(response from Rocket!!!) You rememeber???
We are much closer to that than I ever thought we would be.

Primary focus has been on the complete package.
#15 picks have been workouts and prelims only. Although, Fathers D and T always have a plan!


Last question.....
No response, just refer to the first answer.

Just say, "Oh my God!" inside your head and move on.

<b>5/26:</b>

Doc,
I know you have been legit for all your posts, but this does not mesh with what I am hearing????

We shall see.

Either way, it is a win for the ROX.

<b>5/27:</b>

Doc,
Again, I think you've jumped the gun on this one. Everything I am hearing is contrary to this.

Personally, I don't even think it is remotely possible to have worked out nearly all the contract matters with China, the CBA and the NBA in one week. That would be unheard of diplomacy.

This is a smoke screen. Doc, no offense intended, but if this is what people are telling you, I think you are being strung along or being used. It just isn't consistent with the 411.

Anyway, like I said, we shall see.

Wait a minute, think about this, maybe this is half right. If the rights negotiations are correct that would mesh with the draft Ming #1 word you are hearing. Hmmmm......Could be.

Draft, rights deal and trade. Possible, very possible.

Alas, as I said earlier, we shall see.

<b>5/29:</b>

Rice Predictions: Next Year

Playing for another team.....bank on it!


<b>5/29:</b>

BDJ,
Currently we are over the cap until we renounce our rights to Williams (NOTE: I have not looked at the cummulative salaries of our other FAs this year. I am assuming that that dollar value is less than the dollar number we need to get under the current cap - $42.5 million, but maybe not so - lets just stick with Williams $5.0 million cap hit for arguments sake). What this means is we can not take on additional salaries (excluding the MCE) unless we trade salaries equal or greater to the salaries we take on.

What this means is if we want Brand, Odom or any other players in a trade (excluding draft picks as they do not count against the cap - read: no cap value here) we have to trade a players or players with a combined salary cap hit that is equal or greater to the cap value of Brand, Odom or any other player we receive.

Now if we renounce Williams and that puts us under the cap (about $1.0 million). Then we can acquire a player with a cap hit for the amount we are under the cap. Clearly, we do not have much manuvering room in this scenario. That is why everyone is gripping about the bad contracts.

So, what this means is that we want to unload a big (Rice, Taylor, Cato or Mooch) contract while receiving lesser contracts.

Note: the Clips are ideal trade partners for us in this case because the Clips are one of two teams under the cap. That means that they can take on more salary than they trade away. Good news for us. We can get players and picks while lowering our overall cap situation.

The trick here is if we go under the cap by more than the MCE, we lose the MCE this year or any year we remain more than the MCE dollar value under the cap. We MAY lose the MCE this year, but it probably won't be problem in subsequent years as we will likely resign Stevie to a monster contract this year.

Is this clear as mud now?

<b>5/29:</b>

BDJ,
Sorry about that. I answered the CBA portion of your question, but not the trade portion.

A workable trade example:

Rice, KT and the #1

For

Brand, Odom, Maggette, #8 and #12

or Rice, KT, Collier and the #1 & #38

For the same package

You could also just do:

Rice and the #1

For Brand, Odom, #8 and #12

They all work, but which one is likely???

Point being, Clips are eatting more salary than sending out. Notice the picks have zero effect.

Hope that helps.

<b>5/29:</b>

Gator,
Although I have not checked the dollar values all else is on the money.

Do you know many iterations of this stuff HP and I have discussed? Man, I think we know more about the cap than we ever wanted too!!! LOL

Nice job!

<b>5/30:</b>

Gator,
No insult taken whatsoever.

All are good questions.

One never knows what Sterling may do. He is such a greedy SOB, the idea of Rice for two years and the expiration of a +$9.0 million contract may have him wetting himself.

By the by, I don't ever recall him paying a max contract to ANY player. Do you?????

At this point, I think he is really just trying to put a team on the floor that fills seats that does not cost him too much. It continues to look like a revolving door to me.

Notice I left Kandi out of every iteration. That goes back to the talent evaluation part of your post. I just do not see what he adds to our team that we could not gain elsewhere.

<b>5/30:</b>

BDJ,
Thanks!
I did not check out an Odom/Maggette package. I don't know if that overloads the Clips or clears under their cap. Do you really want two SFs in one deal though...maybe? I don't know. In any event, I think the Clips would demand that KT be in any trade. Then again...I could be wrong!!!!

Gator,
I all likelyhood the Clips would draft Williams and leave Ming for Chicago.

I like Lewis, but I don't know if he is worth betting the farm. That scenarion assumes Taylor and Griff stay. Taylor is our starting PF without a doubt.....if healthy. KT would continue in his roll. Where does Griff fit in? He would have to be the backup SF to Lewis. That would surely put a damper on his developement.

Right now, there is no question that Griff is and will be something special. He is an exceptional talent. Within the next year or two he will demand the same attention as Garrnett. We really have had two #1 picks two years in a row.

<b>5/30:</b>

Gator/BDJ,
All of this is really acedemic. The trick here is Chicago. What we really need to do is get dialed into who THEY want (Personally, I think the Jay Will to Chicago is PR hype. Everyone I have talked to says Krausse, who has a reputation for falling love with certain draftees, has a hard-on for Ming). I really think this presents tremendous opportunity to us...even if they want Jay Will, we need to extract something from them. Then trade the pick.

However, if I had to pick today, I would undoubtedly pick Jay Will as he represents the greatest value to the club - either through trade or trade of another player currently under consideration.

<b>5/30:</b>

Sofine,
No offense taken because I wouldn't want Odom. My target would strickly be Brand with an eye on trading Mo T and moving Griff to the SF position.

<b>5/30:</b>

Sofine,
Believe me if we offered Mot, T Mo picks #8, #12 (if we swung a Clips trade before hand) and #15 to a bidder, it would be snapped up in a heartbeat! You underestimate Mo Ts value. Many teams needs PFs of his exact caliber. The Rockets of two years ago being one example. In addition, three first round picks within the top 15 this year is a huge carrot considering the depth of this draft.

<b>5/30:</b>

GATOR,
Last post!

Already missing those dominating big man days, eh????

LMAO

Me too!!!

BUT, is Ming that guy? I just don't see Moses or Hakeem there.

I know that is not your expectation level, but I want that level from at least one position from this either via draft or trade.

Am I greedy or what!

<b>5/29:</b>

More Blather!!!

Pump up the volume.

The PR department is working overtime.

<b>5/29:</b>

Sorry, Jeff.
That was not meant as a slam on you.

I still don't think Ming is our pick. All indicators point otherwise. This goes back to Doc's and my conversation.

<b>5/29:</b>

Just what we need....Lee Brown as the Rocekts mouthpeice!!!

<b>5/30:</b>

Jeff,
I don't think there is a conspiracy.

I just don't believe Ming will be on the Rocket's roster.

Hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, know what I mean?

<b>5/30:</b>

Achebe,
Long time no chat...you know how work goes...peaks and valleys.


Damn! Tell me how you really feel about Odom. It is funny you say that, because any deal with the Clips for me begins and ends with Brand. I know, I know...all the arguments about Griff and Brand being in his way of development. I still see Griff as a 3.

Does all the speculation really matter? We still end up walking away with more than we ever thought we would have.


Just for speculation....If we get Brand and Picks #8, #12 and #15, who do you pick? Do you fullfil your obligationto the Grizz? Do you try to package Mo T and picks for something else?


Thoughts??????

<b>5/30:</b>

Achebe,
With the Brand deal to work you would hav eto give up KT. If I was the Clips I would not accept anything less.

As to Francis, lets just say there are similar beliefs and considerations in certain circles as to your thoughts.

<b>5/30:</b>

HP,
You are correct sir!

<b>5/30:</b>

Gator/HP,
Sorry about that! For some reason I was thinking Kandi was still in his last contract year.

Brain glitch!

<b>5/30:</b>

Doc/Gater/Manny R/Achebe/NIKE,
Are these trades starting to sound amazingly familiar or is it me.
Stay tuned!


Lets see......
Now what was that confirmed info again?????


Hahahahahahaha

Looks like all is coming to bear as indicated.

Ahhh, the future! Cloudy it is.........

Then again, maybe not.

Manny,
Remeber the trade???

<b>5/31:</b>

(EddieWasSnubbed) On RealGm.com, they reported the Clipps are offering Odom, Magette, and the #8 for the number 1. (Sorry but I dont really want to post the link.=-) ). They also said if we add glenn rice, we might get the 12.

Personally, I would love this deal. We could look at Borchardt with the 8, if NY doesn't take him. If we didn't look at Borchardt or he was gone, we could get Hilario at 8. With 12 we could get Amare or ????.Maybe we could package the 8, 12, KT, and MoT for someone like Sheed maybe. With the 15 we could get a Haislip.

(Rocket!!! response)
EWS,
Not meant as a slight towards you.

Add one player, ship out three, exchange some picks and you have the trade on the table. Subsequent trade...refer to Yoda quote. Exists, but not in stone. Just the wrong team.

Not under any circumstances will we deal with the Blazers (team chem./Pip issues).

Seek and yee shall find answers in the past.

<b>5/31:</b>

Jeff,
The Clips are under the cap. They can take on more salary that they give back as long as they remain under the cap or if it pushes them over the cap they must be within 15% plus $100k.

The deal works, but it is not the deal we are looking for...it is getting closer than ever.

<b>6/1:</b>

MR,
Can you believe they upped it publicly to Odom, Maggette and the #8 already? It is getting awfully close to where we discussed.

Cool ain't it! (D@mn it, I hate using that word, but all the ain't phrases are coming up tonight)

 

<b>5/31:</b>

<b>WOW,
Talk about getting the moniker Team Makeover.

Williams....gone
Langhi.....gone
Willis...gone unless for a shoestring
Brown....gone
Torres...gone unless required for last minute backup


First trade,

Rice....gone???
KT...gone????
Collier....gone????

Second trade,

MoT....gone????
TMo....gone????


That leaves us with 1/2 a center, a 3/4, one shooting guard, and one point gaurd with his backup.

Feel free to fill in the holes. TAD are on it right now.

Ummmm, lets see... </b>

<b>5/31:</b>

Sherlock,
Lets just say we could be sitting stronger at PF than this franchise has ever been...meaning a second trade would be imminent. Depends on the first (read Clips here). Very likely. The closer to draft day, the closer the receiving is to the initial asking price.

Mango,
Yes, but.......

It depends on your perspective. If you could make 4 out of five psoitions rock solid for the next 10 years with all-stars or just short thereof it really is a hell of a deal. Looks like this is what is going to happen. "Pray real hard tonight Johnny and your dreams will come true!"

WoK,
Reality....After you eliminate Williams, Willis and Rice, there isn't any one on the team with more than 6 years of NBA experience.

Williams and Willis are gone if we get the young guys (except as IR backups). Any trade with the Clips and Rice is gone. That is the ONLY way the trade works under the CBA.

<b>5/31:</b>

Mango,
Define ugly contract???

Rice?
+$9.0 million, but....
Two years and out = HUGE cap space (now when is it the Clips babies mature????, Hmmmmm......)

Taylor?
+$6.0 million per
Depends on your perspective. This is a serious upgrade at PF for many teams.

Cato?
Oh well, two-out-of-three ain't bad! (by the way I despise using the word ain't!)

<b>5/31:</b>

Mango,
Posit.......How many of the lotto teams realistically expect to jump from lotto contender to championship contender?
Answer....none!

The Rockets are the poster child for rebuilding a team from champs to lotto to playoffs (although missed by one game).

Every team knows that last year was an aberation for us. As is the resultant #1 pick (read gravy here).

We got this way via the step by step building process ( we also had a little luck). Having MoT join our team raised our win total significantly...agreed? It just so happens that now we are in the lucky enough position to upgrade several positions because of this gift. MoT is a very good PF, now it is time for a great one and we have the means to make that happen while obtaining a very good SF (what Rice was supposed to be..yea right!).

Griff,
Ahhhh, where does Griff fit in? Anywhere you want him to. With all that talent, he is a gift from heaven for the future...2-3 years.
He is the one player we have always wanted but never had in the history of the franchise. We hoped Horry was that guy, but not quite. This is the real deal.

<b>5/31:</b>

R-R-U,
I made no such remarks about either MoT or KT.

Reread the posts.

This tread has nothing to do with either of them (other than part of viable trade packages) with regard to rotations.

Will either of them even be here?????

Reread the posts........

<b>5/31:</b>

REIT,
No Denver is not in the cards. They have serious cap issues.

Why don't you just ask me whats on the table...although I will not tell you at this time.

Ask Doc Rocket! I told him he was premature. That is why he was/is nervous. One never knows, but the stars are aligning. The Chicago camp is coming. Deals, deals, deals........

I know, I know! I hate the cryptic **** too, but sorry guys. If you dig you will find the answers with a few curveballs of course.

<b>5/31:</b>

WoK,
Reread my comment on Griff.

Honestly, Seattle is not in the cards. They have nothing to deal with at this point. They lack picks and Lewis by himself does not work under the CBA.

Besides, do you really want to deal with Seattle anyway. We have a history of dealing with specific teams and screwing other teams. eg. Toronto and NY (and don't read into this that we are dealing with either......are you kidding. Why in the hell would we want anything from NY. They have become the running joke around here! )

<b>5/31:</b>

LMAO!!!!!!!

Your' kill'in me REIT.


This is Scott Layden calling for Mr. Dawson.

He won't take my calls anymore?

Okay, Okay, wait....tell him I'm offering him our first round pick for every other year for infinity plus Spree! He has to take that! OHHHH, please, please, please! I'm gonna lose my job if he doesn't take that! Whine, sniff, sniff

<b>5/31:</b>

WoK,
For the record....
Make no mistake, Cat did what he was told. Three people control this organization and thats it. If someone decides they do not like that; they have been sent packing. End of story.

Play the game. Information is power. Misinformation breeds nervousness and works to your advantage. That statement was timely. Notice the deal increased thereafter.

<b>6/1:</b>

WoK,
Oh, didn't I make that inherently obvious........

<b>6/1:</b>

Ummmm......

Remember the comment about curve balls guys????

Bay Rock...try sarcasm for Troy, we miss him so!

FYI,
Kandi cannot be traded (mistaken by EVERYBODY before the trade was on the table). I think credit goes to aelliott for that correction, if I am right...thank you, sir. Your post helped considerably.

Jeeezzzzzzzz!!!

Actually, this is a very easy trade and Occam's Razor is out the window. As I said, "Ask Doc, that is why he is so nervous."

Again, the trades are easy, but Doc's razor just isn't cutting it!

Doc, any new news or reply???? Can you reconfirm your thread or are you now hearing similar 411 to this???

The message is the same, it just keeps getting louder.

GATOR,

I knew there was a reason I liked you so much! Pretty smart guy that Gator. Close , but.......

Keep digging.

Oh, and to who ever said this...

"Krause must be Yoda."

Krausse will NEVER, repeat NEVER be f**king Yoda! What an insult! To the character, I mean!

One has knowledge, the other, weeeeeeeelllllllllll.......

The Yoda reference referred to the second trade.

Reread the post.

Guys, This is supposed to be fun.
I gave you this for your enjoyment. W-o-K has the right attitude.

I can't tell you everything right now. Hell, either party could pull back at any time. "Nothing is written, We write our own future!"
Trades fall through every day, but this is about as close to sure as I have seen in a long time, at least this early in the game. But, then again......


Not a clue, but can anyone name the quote above. It may not be exact, but it is pretty close. Great flick! Again, it is NOT a clue. Just fun!


To all,

For those that do not recognize this yet, word is JW is ALL THAT! At least, that is what several teams believe and are willing to give the farm for. EEESH! Nice grammar ROCKET!!!

Pretty soon it will be.....

"Would you like some fries with that?" (NOTE: Only to be said in a hillbilly accent)

Clutch, are you there?

What's up! Are you enjoying this as much as I am. What a great day for us! The heavens surely opened up and smiled on us with these turn of events. Boy am I ready to hear Gene say, "How sweet it is!" again and REALLY mean it throughout the season.

<b>6/1:</b>

GATOR,
Sorry about that! I didn't know you were the one that said that.

That was kind of crappy then...giving you an attboy and a swat on the nose in the same post.

At least I should put them in seperate posts next time. Dope!!!! LOL

To all,

Yoda is Yoda, Damn it!!! (Sorry, Clutch)

Although, calling West Yoda is a GREAT analagy! Hummmm....

6/1

GATOR,

You NEVER, EVER, EVER have to apologize to me.

I would have expected something like, "That was me who said that you @ssh@ole ROCKET!!!" LOL

Seriously, You know I converse with few. You ROCK!!! I love you, man. Oh, wait, I already have beer in the fridge.

By the by (BTB),
Sorry, left you hanging. I HAD to go to Galveston today.
Have a bud that does that sandcastle deal. He makes me go. Up at 6:00 am drive down put on sun screen (which I hate...don't use it all summer for anything else, including other beaches, but NO! I have to for Galveston), get all sweaty and gritty, sand in the car, drive back exhausted, shower, get the car washed. What a waste of a perfectly good golf day!!!!

Ok, I'm done PMSing now.

<b>6/1:</b>

Cat,
If they are not reliable, we have a serious problem! Again, this may not happen. People are wierd. Sometimes they get greedy or touchy. **** happens. Things fall through. Life is funny sometimes.

You are correct. I don't post much. I usually come around only this time of year. I like to see the varying viewpoints and get a read. It helps in assessment. Fan support is important too. Sometimes though, the fans don't know crap and judgement is made on the basis of reality.

Just so you know...
significant insider info is posted on this site. Question is what is correct and what is smoke.

<b>6/1:</b>

Relativist,
Nothing was meant by the hillbilly comment. My gammar was so, poor with the sentence preceeding it; I was degrading myself.

Guesses as to the flick. Nope..try again. This is a movie you can lean on for good visuals images. 60s

<b>6/1:</b>

Doc,
WOW!!!

Didn't mean to cause you heat.

Sorry, about that.


I keep saying things could change in a heartbeat, but nobody wants to
HEAR
it!!!!!

I think I may log off and just go watch a movie.

 

Ok, after reading all these posts, its my opinion that the trades he is hearing about are as follows:

1 - Try to get something from Chicago, who REALLY wants Ming, even though they are trumpeting they want JWil, hopefully Curry, perhaps Crawford, and then ship them in the deal to LAC. Possibly include them in a 3-way with LAC, so Chicago is guaranteed to get Ming and LAC to get Williams.

2 - First Trade: LAC - #1, Rice, KT, Collier (and whatever we get from Chicago), possibly #15 and/or 38 for Brand, Odom (or Maggette), #8/12. That sets us at PF for many years to come.

3 - Second Trade: Memphis - Taylor/TMo/#8/12 (possibly #15) (possibly relieve them of 2nd round obligation) for Battier/Swift/#4.

4 - Draft: Caron Butler or Mike Dunleavy at #4. Rockets believe that their #38 pick would stick with the team.

5 - Let go of Williams, Langhi, Willis, Brown, and maybe even Torres, if needed as last minute backup...

6 - Keep Francis, Griffin, Mobely, Cato, Norris, and possibly Torres.

7 - ROCKET!!! thinks Griffin will be our 3.

That would give us a team of:

Cato/FA/possibly #38
Brand/(Griffin)/Swift
Butler or Dunleavy/Odom or Maggette/(Griffin)
Mobely/Battier/possibly Torres
Francis/Norris

 

<b>Darth West:</b>

Well, lets walk through the Mempis trade. I'm not the one with the inside information on this, nor an expert, but I'll try to re-itterate points ROCKET!!! made, and add a few thoughts, until he shows up...

Taylor is an upgrade over any player you have now at PF, certainly better than Wright and Swift, (since Gasol has been playing the 3).

You are stacked at the 2, with Battier, Dickerson, Anderson and Buford, and can afford to trade a player. Taylor's numbers are better than Battier's, so you would be trading two starters of similar value.

Swift hasn't turned out to be all you'd hoped him to be, but he does have potential. Morris is a similar bench player with future starter potential, so there you would be trading 2 players of similar value.

So, now the issue is, do you want to trade your #4 for the 8/12/15 and future 2nd rounder you owe us, maybe even #38.

Obviously, Ming and Williams are the first 2 in the draft, and the only franchise type players projected at this point. Then there is a second level of Dunleavy, Butler, Wilcox and Gooden. Most people think Borchardt would go #7 to NY.

So, that leaves #8 - 18 a group projected as probably starters in the league, and most aren't that the #2-7 are any better than this group, must maybe a little more potential. So, do you get 1 player with a tad more potential, but not guaranteed star, or do you take 3 future starters?

For instance, its quite probable, that you'd end up with

#8 one of Butler/Tskitishvilli/Wilcox/Hilario/Borchardt/Woods
#12 one of Tskitishvilli/Hilario/Woods/Stoudamire/Jeffries/Rush
#15 one of Hilario/Stoudamire/Jeffries/Haislip/Ely/Nachbar

You could end up with Borchardt at center, Hilario at C/PF, and Stoudamire at C/PF/SF, who many project as the best potential in the draft, although he'd take awhile to develop. Or would you rather have one of Dunleavy or Butler at the same position as Gasol. That doesn't seem like an upgrade of your team. And, none of the PFs in the draft will solve your problem there for another few years.

This way, you get immediate help at PF, and a much deeper bench, stockpiling future starters.

It's not as lopsided a trade for you guys, as you are saying...