Clemens moves to #2 on the all-time strikeout list

I think there's a bias in your list towards more recent pitchers.

Nolan Ryan is not one of the top 5 pitchers ever. Period. He's certainly a hall of famer, but there are quite a few people who deserve to be in your poll more than him. I'm not sure that Randy Johnson is either, though I'd have to look at it more closely to be certain.

 

no Tom Seaver?
Walter Johnson?
Christy Mathewson?
Warren Spahn?
Bob Gibson ?
Steve Carlton ?
Bob Feller ?


I thought maybe ytou were going for best modern day pitcher, but you have Cy Young there

anyways

Best pitcher of ALL time? Walter Johnson

Best pitcher of the modern era? Roger Clemens or Tom Seaver, too close to call

 

I'm not even sure that Cy Young belongs on a list like this. As Curt Schilling would say, he was playing in an era of what was essentially sandlot ball.

Koufax always comes up. Clemens for this era. I always hear Lefty Grove mentioned, but I know nothing about him.

 

How can anyone vote for Cy Young? Who has honestly seen him pitch a whole game much less an entire season or his entire career? I dont understand how anyone can vote for a person that they have never seen pitch. I could never vote for Koufax, Spahn, or anyone else of that era simply because I have never seen them pitch. I cant say how dominate they were or what kind of competition they were up against.

 

Are you saying that you don't think anyone could vote for Babe Ruth, Ted Williams or Ty Cobb (for example) as the greatest hitter ever because they never saw them play?

I guess that leaves Jesus and Mohammed out of the voting for greatest religious influence ever.

 

ummmm..here's my vote:

Babe Ruth

oh, yeah...and Jesus on the religious thingie.

 

I'm saying that it is hard to evaluate any of these if you have never seen them play. I cant say that Babe Ruth or Ted Williams is better than Willie Mays or Hank Aaron. I cant say that any of them are better than Barry Bonds or A-Rod. I can say that I think Barry Bonds is a better hitter than A-Rod because I have seen both of them play. I have just never been able to understand how someone can make a case for someone that they have never seen.

On the other hand, I can say that Ted Williams hitting .400 for a season is amazing. I can say that Hank Aaron hitting 755 HR's for a career is amazing. I still never saw them play and I cant make an opinion on how they stack up against the players of today because I never saw them.

The difference between baseball and religion is that religion is based on faith. Baseball is a combination of statistics and subjectivity.

 

I don't know..I think you can look at numbers...take into account other circumstances...and come to some conclusions.

Babe was hitting more homers than teams in the league at the time. He was so dramatically better than those in the era he played in, that I don't think there's a legit argument that keeps him from being clearly the greatest baseball player, ever. That, and the social impact he had on the game in the wake of the Black Sox scandal.

 

I'm not doubting their greatness by any means. In their time, they were by far the best players.

 

i think you judge players relative to the players in their era. i can't compare head to head numbers of Bonds v. Ruth...so i'm forced to ask how Ruth compared with his contemporaries and how Bonds compared with his contemporaries...and then draw conclusions from that...again, taking into consideration all the circumstances.

 

I am somewhat split on that. I dont think Babe Ruth would be as dominating a player now. He was a fat ass. Pitchers are stronger. There are relief pitchers. Scouting is better. Etc. I think players are better today because the competition is so much more fierce.

 

which is why i think you can only judge players relative to their era...and then compare across. what would babe have been with the technology that the game has today for players? who knows...but you're only looking at half of the equation..that the players today might be better...without considering that if babe played today, he too would have those advantages.

fat ass or not...the guy was a great pitcher as well. john kruk was a fat ass, but dude could flat out hit.

 

By relative standards in an era, Nolan Ryan is 1,700 K's above the next greatest pitcher and Hall of Famer, Roger Clemens. I think he could be considered as greatest pitcher of all time very easily. The Strikeout is the signature stat for pitchers. He dominated.

 

the strikeout is not the signature stat...ERA relative to ERA's around the league contemporaneously is the signature stat.

 

Seriously, you think pitchers around the world brag about era before strikeouts? While era may be more important to a team, the k is the signature stat from little league right on up.

 

Late in his career he was heavy, but he was also in his late 30's and not taking care of himself. But, for whatever reason, that's the Babe Ruth people think of. He was by no means a schlob, and was an incredible athlete (having John Goodman play him in the movie "Babe" was a total joke).

Ruth in his prime:

 

Does owning the homerun record make Hank Aaron the greatest hitter ever? No, it doesn't and strikeouts don't make Nolan Ryan the greatest pitcher ever. Nolan Ryan never consistently stood out as the best pitcher of his era so there's no way he can be considered the greatest ever.

 

you're talking about bragging rights. if a guy strikes out 20 guys but still gives up 7 runs over 9 innings, who the hell cares? the object of the pitcher is to keep the other team from scoring, and if possible, keep them from getting on base at all.

strikeouts are nice...but they're no more valuable than a lazy pop fly to the second baseman.