They became so invunlerable without Shaq. That proves one thing about Phil Jackson. He is not any special or better coach than the others in the league. His triangle BS didn't fly. Without the pivotal players, the games cannot be won. And ithis applies to Rockets as well. We need to utilize our players, especially the centers and the front court players. Regardless of the hypothetical strategies, the players are the bottom line. The true working strategy is simply utilizing the damn players.
jlaw, You're WAY OFF. Just because Shaq is not there, doesn't mean Phil jackson's a bad coach. I'm absolutely ASTONISHED that the Lakers have 2 wins out of 7. Their team, I realized, besides Shaq, is absolutely horrific (except Kobe of course). Besides Kobe and Shaq, no player on that team can start on the Mavs, Nets, or Kings. You can make a case about Fox on the Mavs, but that's it. Pick whoever you think is your favourite coach. Put him on the Grizzlies. You think they'd be better than 2-5? Most people would've won with Shaq and Kobe and Jordan and Pippen. But few would win 9 or 10 frikkin rings, EVEN with those players.
By definition ISO plays are not team plays, so there is no way anyone could make their team look better performing an ISO. 47 shots! That tells you how much Kobe and Phil think of the offensive skills of the rest of the team, and how much offense the other players brought. They're just making a case for Shaq as MVP again...
I think you asessment of Jackson is way off base. Not having your star player is detrimental to any offense and any coach and the triangle and Phil Jackson are not exempt from that.
Invulnerable means undefeatable or such, I think the word you're looking for is vulnerable. But yeah, I think when a team loses it's best player they become much worse. Was Phil Jackson a bad coach for not winning a championship in Jordan's retirement? I think not. For instanse, look how horrible we were without Francis last year.
It's not like the Lakers have played the Nuggets or Grizzlies in every game either... You have to be stupid to let a 6 or 7 game stretch erase 12 years of an incredible strech for Phil Jackson.
Michael would have got his rings with or without Phil... Players like Michael (actually noone's like mike) and Magic and Larry would have won with any decent supporting cast and any decent coach and that's just the way it is... I will give him credit for having the smarts to jump on the tails of stars like Shaq and Mike and also to hire Tex Winters and utilize his offense... That does take some intelligence to see a good thing a become a part of it... So Phil's a good evaluator of talent and a decent coach but that's all no miracle worker...
Good one Joe. Yeah, it's been know that you need at least 2 good players to run the Triangle. And not to fault Phil, or any other coach, but you can only do so much. As someone already mentioned, Larry, Magic, Jordan.....these players were going to win no matter who their coach, as long as they had decent role players.
Now, these are some "Sane" statements. 100% agree. The only thing a bascketball fan can say against Phil Zenkson is he refuses to waste time on rebuilding. Hey, this is a free country and people have rights to choose)
I disagree. Shaq would've never won, and the Lakers that we know right now would'nt exist. Either Kobe or Shaq would be somewhere else. If it was that easy, why didn't Jordan or Shaq win before Phil? If Phil isn't the best coach, than why would Micheal Jordan play for NO one else? Don't tell me he's playing for Collins, because we all know Collins is playing for him.
You can't really be that stupid. Shaq was in the finals his 2nd year in the league. Only a moron would think that Shaq would never win a title.
MemphisX, No need for name-calling. Shaq needed 2 people to win, and those 2 people are Phil Jackson and Kobe or someone similar, like McGrady or Grant Hill. No other coach could've kept Kobe and Shaq on the same team, happy and winning. No other coach could've made Kobe play in sucha disciplined offense. No other coach to that point succesfully installed true deefnse into Shaq's game. If you're so smart, EXPLAIN to me why Jordan and Shaq's title BOTH coincided with Phil's arrival. I mean, Jordan was already RIPPING up the league, and so was Shaq. They absolutely destroyed all matchups (except Hakeem is Shaq's case). So tell me why only Phil could take them there? If tex WInters is the man, then why isn't HE the coach with 9 rings? Get serious. Every player in the league wants to play for Phil, and every player that played for Phil are reluctant to play for anyone else. There's a reason for that, and a danm good one at that.
My arguement was that Phil J. was an overrated coach. His credibility of pulling a powerful team together could not be denied. But it was MJ and the rest of the team who brought the early successes to the team, MJ's leadership and teammates' insurmountable work ethic. That was what built the momentum for the Bulls to win the subsequent championships.
I don't think you can compare coaches really. There's only so much a coach can do. What makes Phil Jackson great is that he knows how to maximize great players. Previous coaches in L.A. couldn't do that. It's the same thing that makes RUdy T a great coach. It's not that he's a miracle worker, it's that when he had a healthy Hakeem, he knew how to maximize his potential, and sure enough Hakeems most productive years came under Rudy T. There's a handful of great coaches in this league, and I think they are all pretty equivalent. Those include Rudy T, Jackson, Riley, Van Gundy, Larry Brown, and Lenny Wilkens. There's some up can coming coaches, but it's to early to tell. The only I can conclude is that what matters most is the quality of the players. Great players will find a way to win and motivate their teammates to play harder. A coach can't do that really. All he can do put the players in position to use their skills. Beyond that, there's little they can do during a game.
You mean all THOSE titles he won under Doug Collins? Oh yes, I remember all those times that Chi would roll past the Bad Boys. Ah yes, it is all coming back to me. Also, I clearly remember all the rings Shaq and Kobe had won under Del Harris. Thank you for the reminder.
