British Gov Scientists. Iraq War Has killed 650,000 Iraqis.

Unlike the U.S. establishing themselves it wasn't the Iraqis who made the decision that they wanted to change via violent overthrow. It was the U.S. who made that decision for them, and then told them how they were going to change.

It wasn't something that organically grew up from within Iraq.

 

Does that give another country the right to invade? Saddam wasn't exactly the only madman in this world running a country, only thing is that he was sitting on a gold mine.

 

I know it isn't the best analogy, but the poster who i was responding to made it seem like he would prefer peace under oppression, which by all accounts the people of Iraq were truly under.

Again, I don't think we had any business in Iraq whatsoever, I just find it funny how people claim that we let Bush take away our freedoms in exchange for peace (which I agree with) but then won't equate least a PARTIAL portion of it with the situation in Iraq.

 

No argument. All I am saying is that even if you believe the baloney that the US invaded to save the Iraqi people from Saddam, that still also means you tacitly support dictating when and where a culture/people should fight for "freedom". I don't agree with that Hayesian logic.

I don't understand your point. Please reiterate it.

 

nods, I see your point. I totally agree with it, people shouldn't dictate when an oppressed people "want" to break out. Though, you do have to admit, elements of our culture certainly encourage that. Teachers are told to report symptoms or signs of child abuse even if the child doesn't want to which can lead to an abused child being separated from its abusive parents even when it doesn't want to be separated form them.


My second point was unnecessarily convulted. There are certain people who say that we have in essence traded our rights for peace by allowing laws like the Patriot Act and being nonchalant about wiretapping because of the threat of terrorism. Yet this level of oppression of rights is nowhere close to the level of oppression Saddam forced on his people. But while the argument is made that we shoulda left Iraq alone because at least the peopel weren't dying under Saddam, the same people would rail against Bush for doing the same thing.

 

nitpick: We traded our rights for the illusion of peace.

1) I don't let myself compare america to the lowest common denominator.
2) I would not rail against Bush if he said "I am not going to sacrfice american liberties due to the threat of potential terrorism". I would applaud.

 

I must've missed part in history about the foreign power occupying the US while we were trying to get established and the massive sectarian strife.

 

Under that reasoning it would be logical to say then we allowed the Iraqis freedom in exchange for war.

 

Let's see, had Saddam cooperated with the United Nations and not booted the inspectors out, or had he complied with our ultimatum to disarm, then none of this would have transpired. Second, the report lists the total # of Iraqis that have died since the invasion. A small fraction of those died from US fire. Many died from terrorist activities perpetrated by radical Muslims. Does the figure also include deaths by natural causes? What a misleading report.

Typical libs though. Instead of blaming Saddam and the terrorists, they attribute all things negative to Bush. So in their warped, decrepit minds Al Qaeda and a living Saddam are more trustworthy and deserve the benefit of the doubt. Wow, the libpigs' rage has turned them into even more stupid humans than they were to begin with. And that's saying something... Get a clue libs.

 

Which is why it's so dangerous to say another culture's lifestyle is barbaric, overly repressive, or not right by our standards.

It gives people like neocons the justification to "free" them.

 

lol if I were Sishir I'd bring up Tibet to you.

 

in my opinion that is exactly what we did. IT IS NOT SOMETHING I AGREE WITH. If you want to be free from oppression, you will eventually have to fight back which will cause many deaths, but like Rhad, I do not believe it is in our place to say when an entire country is ready to do that.

 

Well, Orwell was close then:

WAR IS FREEDOM
PEACE IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

 

No I will leave that to others.

 

Exactly! China is the one saying Tibetian culture is wrong and the tibetian people need to be "freed" from the evil Dali Lama.

Bringing that up is a great point - and goes on to actually prove exactly what I am saying. China has done to Tibet what we have done to Iraq. Countless of Tibetians have been killed, we saw a video of them being shot in the back fleeing thier homeland as refugees.

In this way, China and the U.S. really do have a lot of common.

 

As Bob Marley sang, "Empancipate yourselves from mental slavery; None but ourselves can free our minds"

 

Let's we, had George Bush not invaded Iraq under false pretenses despite global and significant domestic opposition, none of this would have transpired. Second, the report lists the total # of Iraqis that have died since the invasion (duh). A small fraction of those died from US fire (duh). Many died from terrorist activities perpetrated by radical Muslims (which would not have happened if we had not invaded). Does the figure also include deaths by natural causes (no)? What a misleading report (you hope it is).

Typical Bush-ites though. Instead of blaming him for what may be the biggest military blunder in U.S. history, they attribute all things negative about the Iraq disaster to "lib pigs" (even though they opposed the invasion). So in their warped decrepit minds (even though every single prediction he's made about Iraq has turned out to be completely false), Bush is still trustworthy and deserves the benefit of the doubt. Wow, the Bush-ite rage has turned them into even more stupid humans than they were to begin with. And that's saying something... Get a clue Bush-ites (or at least unplug your brain from the Bush propaganda machine for a second).

 

Shouldn't we do something about these pigs? Shouldn't we herd them together and let them play in their filth. They are animals - sick disgusting pigs...who are covered in their own crap. They smell bad, can't think, and oink. They are un-American, and are ruining our society....and they are traitors because they side with the terrorists.

Gross sick people. Unfit for most people's company. Unfit to even assoicate with - their stink can contaminate you.

Maybe we should stick these enemy non-combatants somewhere together. What do you think of that?

 

China has also built infrastructure, created a tourism industry and freed the common people from theocracy so it aint like the Tibetans (those whoe are non-radicals) aren't living better today than they did 30 years ago. I've watched some special on PBS a couple of years ago, the living standards are up. What I do think is sad is some of the indigenous cultures gone down, but now if China allow the Tibetans to build some casinos (cuz really, how different is this from native americans) I think it'll be fair. I do think China needs to do more in making Tibetan's life better, and something like Casinos might just do the trick.

 

Your lack of knowledge, is absolutely astounding.

Saddam didn't boot the inspectors out. Bush pulled them out. They wanted to stay, and Saddam was willing to have them stay.

In case you missed it, Saddam was disarmed.