The local sports radio station KNBR in the Bay Area is reporting that the giants are close to getting Beltran. Reported that the Marlins are also in the deal. Marlins would get Yorvit Torreabla and the Astros would get Adrian Gonzales and Matt Cain. Giants would get Beltran. This is somewhat surprising since Cain was labeled untouchable by the giants and is their 2nd best pitching prospect. I wouldnt be surprised if the trade happened because when giants acquire big name players it usually comes out of nowhere ala Bonds and Schmidt.
Dont know anything about Gonzales but here is espns scouting report on Cain. Matt Cain San Francisco Giants Position: RHP Height: 6-3 Weight: 180 Born: 10/1/84 Bats: Right Throws: Right Year Team Level G GS IP H R ER HR BB SO W-L SV ERA 2002 AZL Giants R 8 7 19.1 13 10 8 1 11 20 0-1 0 3.72 2003 Hagerstown A 14 14 74.0 57 24 21 5 24 90 4-4 0 2.55 2004 San Jose A 13 13 72.2 58 15 17 5 17 89 7-1 0 1.86 Norwich AA 1 1 7.0 3 1 0 0 1 4 1-0 0 0.00 Background Matt Cain was drafted in the first round in 2002 out of high school in Germantown, Tenn. Some experts regarded his selection with the 25th overall pick as a slight overdraft; many teams saw him as a second-rounder. But the decision looks excellent now because Cain has met or exceeded the Giants' expectations. Although an elbow injury limited him to 14 starts in 2003, he pitched well and positioned himself for a big step forward in 2004. That's exactly what has happened as he has emerged as the dominant pitcher in the California League this spring. He was promoted to Double-A Norwich a few days ago and pitched very well in his first start. Scouting report Cain was raw when drafted, but has made tremendous (and rapid) strides developing his talent. Tall and projectable, he is filling out his body and should increase velocity as he matures. Because he already throws 92 to 96 mph, additional speed on his heater would make him dominant. Cain's breaking ball was inconsistent in high school, but he's refined it into two different pitches, a traditional slider and a hard curveball, both of which have the potential to be out pitches. Cain's changeup was weak in 2002 and mediocre last year, but has been more effective in 2004. Another area of improvement is his mechanics. They were somewhat unpolished when he signed, which hurt his control. But he's cleaned up his delivery and has repeated it very well this year, leading to improved command. Cain has a good feel for pitching and has adapted well to the professional environment. If he continues to improve his changeup and keeps his mechanics in gear, he will be a complete power/precision pitcher. Performance Cain's statistics have improved at every level, an outstanding sign for his future. His K/BB, K/IP, and H/IP ratios were all excellent last year in the South Atlantic League and were even better this year in the Cal League. He didn't have trouble in his first Double-A outing this past week. He also has shown the ability to keep the ball in the park, an underrated marker. There are essentially no holes in his statistical record. Health record This is the main concern. Cain was limited to 14 starts in '03 because of a stress fracture in his elbow. The Giants shut him down quickly, and he's returned fully healthy in '04 with no sign of any lingering effects. The question, of course, is how long that will last. Cain is an efficient pitcher, which helps. But his curveball and slider stress his elbow, and this will have to be monitored closely in the future. What to expect The Giants' farm system is weak in hitting, but the organization has shown an admirable ability to develop young pitchers in recent years. Cain pairs with Merkin Valdez to give San Francisco another pair of potential mound aces. Cain's rapid improvement and stellar performance this year puts him in the elite category of mound prospects. He has a bright future if his elbow doesn't get in the way. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=1825785
I hate to see Beltran go. But the odds of us finishing the season with the WC or resigning Beltran are both pretty slim. Too slim to not get a bluechip AAA prospect or two.
If he's getting traded, then Drayton & Gerry better stop telling everybody within earshot that "They're absolutely not going to be making any deals..." from today's chronicle: Astros general manager Gerry Hunsicker unequivocally denies having his All-Star center fielder on the market. "The (Carlos) Beltran speculation (in the media) is pure fantasy," Hunsicker said. "Beltran is going nowhere, and ditto for any of our other important players that have been speculated about." http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2705811 Also, I seriously doubt the Phillies would trade either of those guys... they NEED future starting pitching, with the likes of Milwood struggling, Myers not getting anybody out, and Padilla with chronic injury problems.
I would do it, and we still have Lane to fill the void. Why not. I think we could do just as well with or without Beltran. It was obvious he was the best player on the team when he came in, but the lineup didn't generate anything additional with him in there, so who cares. Lane could do just as well for less money and a hot prospect.
Just found that out, but it could be a simple mistake since there is a Alex Gonzales on the Marlins. I just finished listening and they had Jason Stark on the radio and he mentioned the Giants were interested in Beltran, but nothing about that specific trade, only that Houston would want David Aardsma. So I dont know what to think.
We'll have to see. I know they've said that those two are untouchable, with that debacle in centerfield the other day and a tight race going on, things could very well change. It's been reported that that the Phillies are interested in Beltran's services but we'll see if they are willing to part with one of the two (the more probable would be the righty Floyd)
I heard that on ESPN also. They didn't mention any names but we can only guess that the Astros would ask for one of those two.
Nick, That article tells me one of two things. a) They are going to go all out to keep Beltran or b) They really think they have a shot to catch up to the wild card Im really hoping its a) because b) is looking like a long shot.
If the Phillies are making Beltran their #1 priority, I don't know what their agenda is... The phillies main problem right now is an overworked bullpen due to inept starting pitching (even though they have big names in both the starters and the relievers). I know they were mad about Sunday's game, but somehow I doubt they're going to blame all their shortcomings this year on lapses in CF play. Of course, if they're willing to trade Floyd + prospect for Beltran, you do that in a heartbeat... Floyd is barely 21 years old, and he's been a can't miss prospect ever since he was drafted. That trade (especially if Beltran leaves the Phillies after this year) could be equivalent to the Bagwell for Anderson trade...
Here's last years write-up on Floyd and the current on Hamels if interested. Hamels is currently Philadelphia's number one rated prospect. Gavin Floyd, rhp Age: 19. B-T: R-R. Ht.: 6-6. Wt.: 210. Drafted: HS–Severna Park, Md., 2001 (1st round). Signed by: Ken Hultzapple. Background: As a freshman on Mount St. Joseph High’s junior-varsity team, Floyd watched his older brother Mike and Mark Teixeira, both seniors, play for the varsity. Three years later, Gavin and Teixeira were selected with the fourth and fifth overall picks in the 2001 draft, with Philadelphia also taking Mike in the 22nd round. The Floyd brothers were on the South Carolina campus ready to attend class before both agreed to last-minute deals with the Phillies, with Gavin receiving a club-record $4.2 million bonus. He made a strong pro debut in 2002, ranking among the low Class A South Atlantic League leaders in several categories. Managers rated him the league’s top prospect. The Phillies handled Floyd cautiously, starting his pitch count at 70 and stretching it to 100 as he gained strength and durability. Strengths: Floyd came to the Phillies with two plus pitches: his fastball and hard, sharp curveball. He throws the fastball 89-92 mph, peaking at 94-95 mph, with rapid arm action and a smooth delivery, and he used it almost exclusively to no-hit Lexington on July 24. Nevertheless, his knee-buckling curve is his best pitch because it can be unhittable at times. The organization asked Floyd to lay off his curve last season, urging him to develop the changeup that he never needed in high school. He has a nice feel for it now, and it could become a third plus offering. While Floyd’s stuff compares favorably to that of Brett Myers, he has a more laid-back personality. That doesn’t mean Floyd isn’t a strong competitor, though. His makeup and work ethic should allow him to maximize his talents. Weaknesses: Floyd just needs innings and work in game situations. He’s learning which pitches to throw in certain counts and how to read hitters. He throws strikes to both sides of the plate but is refining his command in the strike zone. Floyd must use his fastball more and not rely so much on his curveball. The Future: Though he’s as polished as any prep pitcher after one year in the minors, Floyd won’t be rushed. The Phillies’ minor league pitching depth will allow them to move him one level at a time. He can expect to start 2003 at high Class A Clearwater. Floyd profiles as a No. 1 starter. Cole Hamels, lhp Age: 20 Ht.: 6-2 Wt.: 185 Bats: Left Throws: Left Drafted: HS--San Diego, 2002 (1st round) Signed by: Darrell Conner Background: Hamels had nothing but question marks entering his pro career, but has provided only exclamation points since signing with the Phillies. He ranked as one of the top pitchers in the 2002 draft, but a broken humerus in his left arm caused him to miss his junior season at Rancho Bernardo High and slip to the 17th overall pick. He originally injured his arm in an off-field accident and aggravated it by pitching. He had surgery performed by the Padres team doctor in his native San Diego and rehabbed with pitching guru Tom House before returning and impressing as a high school senior. Protracted contract negotiations kept Hamels away from baseball before he agreed to a $2 million bonus, and then he showed up out of shape from the long layoff. Because he got little done in instructional league, the Phillies sent him to extended spring training in 2003 to get indoctrinated in the organization's philosophies. Once they turned him loose, he dominated the low Class A South Atlantic and high Class A Florida State leagues. His combined 1.34 ERA would have led the minors had Hamels accumulated 11 more innings to qualify. He allowed just 15 earned runs and not a single home run all season. His command, stuff and pitchability allowed him to edge Gavin Floyd for the top spot on this list, and being lefthanded also aided Hamels’ cause. Strengths: Hamels should have three above-average pitches when he reaches the majors. He already shows plus command of a fastball that sits between 89-92 mph with plenty of movement. He can reach back for more when he needs it, topping out at 94. His best pitch might be his plus-plus changeup, which was neck-and-neck with Ryan Madson’s as the best in the organization and possibly the minors. Hamels displays exceptional control of his changeup at such a young age, and it really fades away from hitters. Hamels shows a very businesslike mentality on the mound, with no great highs or lows. He’s a great athlete, allowing him to repeat his delivery with ease, hold runners and field his position well. Weaknesses: His curveball eventually should become a third plus pitch for Hamels, and its movement is already there. He just needs to develop more consistency with the curve. His overall command and control are advanced for his age--and ahead of where Floyd and Brett Myers were at similar stages in their development--but he can continue to improve it as he progresses. The Future: Hamels hasn’t experienced any repercussions from his high school arm injury. A pulled muscle in his right shoulder blade caused the Phillies to remove him from the trials for USA Baseball's Olympic qualifying team. Club officials didn’t want to risk Hamels altering his mechanics to cope. The minor injury isn’t a long-term concern, and he should begin 2004 on schedule by returning to high Class A Clearwater. He’ll be challenged in Double-A Reading as soon as he proves he’s ready, and will continue his rapid development toward becoming a frontline starter.
I still think they're waiting to see how this Diamondbacks series plays out. If they can go into Cincy (and August) 2 games above .500, that's a really good foundation to have a bust-out month to get back in this thing (even though its unlikely... you gotta like the fact that the Giants-Padres-Dodgers are going to beat up on each other, and we still have games left against S.F. and the Cubs.) But, if they go into Cincy at, or below, .500... they would have been running in place ever since the ASG, and then all bets are off. Of course I'm hoping for a.) as well, but you have to remember that they can throw all the money they want at Beltran, and the Yankees will STILL outbid them, and then its up to both him and Boras on where they want to go.
No, of course not, that will fall in Bowa's lap. But at the same time the have a known hole in center and they are in a tight race. Floyd and Hamels could be ready by next year, if rushed, but they are more likely another year away.
Nick, The shape of our pitching staff still makes the WC a pretty large long shot. Clemens and Oswalt are our only reliables. Pettite will hopefully be able to gut it out. Looks like Miller might not even get back this year. Munro is Munro and the 5th slot will probably be a merry go round the rest of the year. Not to mention the bullpen. Good thing is, our O looks like its turning the corner. Im pessimistic at this point.
To be brutally honest, I'd rather have option C take its course and the Astros throw in the towel and bring in some young talent for the future while we can. Option A would be fine and great if I thought they would be able to go on and win the WS, but realistically, I don't think that is going to happen.
If we can get a top pitching prospect we have to make the trade for the future. Pettite and Miller are out, bullpen is way shaky - it is just not our year. I have a feeling we will beat the worst team in the league (diamondbacks) a couple more times and we will stand pat with regained confidence. Then of course, the day after the trade deadline, the Astros go back losing and also lose Beltran for nothing. I hope I am wrong.
Beltran will be an Astro all year. Astros will be in the postseason. I'll be more than happy to make a signature bet on either of these certainties.
