I've held off on commenting for much of the season, but I suppose it has been long enough for me to come up with some general conclusions about this team and Ime. IMO, Ime is fine for now. If you could swap him with Prime Pop, Spo, or someone of that tier, sure do that. Also swap Sengun for Jokic, Amen for SGA, and Reed for Luka while we're at it. If you're just going to replace him with Rivers, Thibs, Malone, etc., then don't bother IMO. If there's a magical young coaching prospect out there, then I guess that's an option, but I think the odds of that working out positively are very low (likely lower than just seeing if Ime could just figure things out himself). I think the current roster is very flawed. Part of it is there is a ton of dead money sitting on the bench. Then you have whatever DFS is. I want to be optimistic that DFS will be good at some point, but he's very much not good right now. I also think some of the young guys have been disappointing in certain aspects. To be fair to them, I have a very high bar. I love Sengun, and he's had some monster games and huge (game winning) plays. He is an all-star. But I don't want to accept 69% FT shooting from him, along with some of his other warts (likely not something Ime has much control over). He needs to play better. And if I'm that critical of him, you can imagine how I feel about the rest. I'll happily complain about each of them if people think I'm singling out Sengun...I used Sengun as an example because he's obviously the most talented/impactful player in the core (as of now anyway). As I understand Ime's general offensive strategy (a form of isolation/mismatch hunting and trying to force 2 on the ball), I think I'm good with that. Especially if we're unable to do a 5 out system or something like that (heavily doubtful with this roster). The results on defense are certainly good, and all things considered, I think being 37-22 at this point in the year with the injuries and SOS is generally good. I don't personally believe in the difference of "floor raiser" coaches vs championship level coaches, so at this time, I see no reason to move on given his success, especially if the players are still responding well to him (now if they start tuning him out...). I don't agree with everything he has done. Some of his rotations are weird. I don't know why he went with player X instead of player Y, or why they did Play A instead of Play B. But I also don't know how much these really matter. Sometimes I'm wrong on these things too, but of course I don't track those. I know for a fact that some Rockets fans obsess about certain decisions without actually thinking things through and realizing that decision actually probably was for the best (or at least wasn't as bad as many think). As for Reed, I'm a Reed guy. Look at my history. People trashed him during the draft, during summer league, during his rookie year, etc. You can find me admitting his mistakes, but still pumping him up as a good prospect. And hey...we're starting to see that. Funnily enough...I'm mostly fine with how Ime has handled Reed. I would like it if he played a BIT more (especially last year), and maybe there were a few situations he should have played where Ime elected to go with someone else. But I don't think these ultimately mattered much. Probably don't fire a coach cause he played a dude 25MPG instead of 28MPG. Especially since I have no clue what is going on behind the scenes. We'll see how Reed continues to develop, but if basically ends up how I projected (generally on track I guess?), then I can't really complain about how things have gone. There's a world out there where he did get 25MPG last year, and started this year at 35MPG. And he just gave up trying on defense, lost his confidence on offense (too much to handle), etc. More reps/minutes isn't necessarily always a good thing. Again, I love Reed, but he was very bad on defense to start the season. I understand the numbers on him show (or showed) a positive impact, though I think this is one of those things you can chalk up to other factors (e.g., playing with defensive line-ups). I think he has gotten quite a bit better over time, but he has not had the level of physicality I was hoping he'd have at the start of the season. Gambled at the wrong times and all that. Also, while he's much better than last year, he still gets too passive on offense IMO (especially when in the game with KD, Sengun, etc). I do believe Ime actually *likes* Reed, and he wants Reed to shoot...and if anything, he probably is more likely to pull Reed because he is too passive vs his issues on defense (that was probably the case last year to some degree). I recall Ime talking about Reed's performance in the Kings game, and he sounded disappointed in Reed's 2nd half 3PA total of 4 (but happy with the 12 3PA in the first half). I've always thought that if Reed was going to be a bust, it wasn't going to be because of his size, athleticism, or whatever...it was going to be due to mental toughness issues. Not taking shots he needs to be taking and things like that. As for Amen, I think that's another controversial topic. I think a lot of people disagree with Ime (and the org) about making Amen a PG (or at least more of an on-ball threat). Again I might be in the minority, but I am 100% in agreement with Ime and the Rockets. If you want to maximize Amen's potential, you have to develop him as a PG. Not an off-ball dunker spot cutter who focuses on defense primarily. I think if you make him an off-ball player, his impact is greatly reduced. I know people like to flaunt his fantastic numbers in that role last year, but I'd point out that this was mostly a regular season thing. From what I recall, he struggled doing that in the playoffs. Why? Well because you can scheme for that off-ball role a lot easier than for the on-ball role. These 3&D guys who can't actually make 3s are not very useful in the league for a reason, and a lot of that shows up in the playoffs. IIRC Amen actually started to flash in the playoffs after doing more on-ball stuff. Again that's the long-term goal. I think combined with Sengun in the lineup, you need Amen to be on-ball even more. Otherwise his man will just sag off and basically create a 5vs4 situation (even if Amen gets a couple of dunks on cuts, this probably isn't good on the whole). On-ball initiation can force his defender to actually guard Amen, and if this core is going to work, you probably need to rely on that long term. Now...yes...Amen has struggled doing this. But that's kinda the point of giving him these reps. I get the impression that only Reed Sheppard should be getting reps, but I think it is possible for other guys to get development reps too. Especially when there are MAJOR decision deadlines coming up on certain players this summer (vs Reed still being a long way off on his ultimate evaluation). Oh and yes, Reed should get PG duties too...with Amen in the lineup. Maybe even more PG duties, at least in the half-court. Long term, I think with this roster, it would be best to have both handle a lot of on-ball creation. If you just make Reed do it all, then defenses will just know Amen is going to stay off ball and cut. If you mix it up (which requires Amen actually developing as a PG/on-ball creator), it is harder for defenses to scheme specifically for what is being run. I don't think this is like NBA 2K where you can just spam the same PnR offense and expect the same results (actually 2K might even be smart enough now to show that doesn't work). I do think there is something wrong with the development of guys on offense. My evaluation of the issues on offense generally match what Ime always complains about. They take too long getting into their actions (so you just end up with KD/Sengun getting the ball with like 8 seconds left). The ball gets "sticky" at times. Guys aren't paying attention to details. Etc. Ime complains about this over and over, but at some point, I have to wonder why these guys aren't getting it. Maybe that's on Ime. To be fair to Ime, I do question whether some of these young guys can make the right quick decisions to make this offense (or really any high level offense) work. Again I love each of the guys in the core, but not all of these guys are known as high level processors. And the better processors have been making some poor decisions...and holding the ball a lot despite in theory being a good processor. I think if you go the route of hiring a new assistant to help out with the offense, then it needs to be someone who can help these players figure out what Ime wants. Because for whatever reason, they're not getting it. If that's on the players, then get better players. If that's on Ime, either replace Ime (with someone similar?) or get him help.
But we are having almost the same W-L records like last season without FVV. The flaw of the logic I replied to was to attribute the success to a single guy, even the leading guy, without the context and consideration of other factors.
This exact thread has appeared for every coach we have ever had since this forum began. 100%. Standard mega fan stuff. What's more is I think eventually, every time, the negative sentiment drove the dislike side to over 50%. Most of the negative votes were signing Ime's praises a year ago.
Well anything is better than Silas and Ime is still that, but his flaws become glaringly obvious over time. DD
God I hate sports fans... it's the same everywhere. If you're not on a ten-game win streak, you're garbage. I'm a lil frustrated by our inconsistency this season, too, but we still have a top 5 record in the entire NBA despite some bad losses that we all know we're better than. Looking at how much parity exists in the league right now, we DO still have a realistic shot at a title with just a bit of luck. I'm not betting on us, but it wouldn't take a miracle. And every day, you have people talking about trading our very best player(s) and dumping the coach that turned it all around for us.
I agree context and consideration of other factors are important, but to the original point, if this team ends up the 3rd seed (say 52 wins), that seems like a pretty good outcome? I think that's on par with projections prior to the season, and that assumed a healthy FVV (and probably Adams + DFS). I think some projected a win total in the 40s after FVV's injury news came out. Probably about right since he basically has a KD/Harden type impact based on EPM numbers. The team's success isn't all attributable to Ime, but I'd certainly expect some of it to be to his credit. Unless you disagree with those projections, and you think this team is something like a 60 win team with a decent coach (or whatever). It is either that, or Ime is indeed a terrible coach, but being a terrible coach doesn't actually seem to matter....so why is this even a thread? (on a side note, if Rockets do/did stumble to finish the season, I would at least partly blame Ime for that) Yeah, I seem to recall very similar complaints about MDA, JVG, McHale (well I didn't like him much either honestly), and I think even Rudy T. And yes, I recall people calling Ime like a top 5 coach (or something similar) a year or so ago. I liked him (and still generally like him), but thought that was a bit presumptuous given the coaching talent out there. It does feel like if you went from calling him a top 5 coach a year or 2 ago, and now you think he's a big dum dum, maybe the evaluation process being used for these coaches needs some work. Youtube recommended me some Sixers fan video recently, and yeah they were just lashing out at Nick Nurse (ironically he was my preferred coaching option when Ime was hired). Talking about how many games the team lost due to his bad decisions, his inability to adjust, etc. There were a few unique things to that situation of course, but it sounded very similar to what folks say here about Ime (and what they've said about every coach of their team at some point). A bit of a tangent, but I watched a semi-recent Locked on Rockets where Jackson talked about Ime. I found it odd that he pumped up Joe Mazzulla and the Celtics because (due to injuries) they were not expected to be a great team. The fact that they have a (now) 41-20 record is proof that Mazzulla is a good coach. Ime is a bad coach though, and the fact they have a 38-22 record with somewhat comparable injuries doesn't mean anything. Also Ime is a terrible coach in the clutch, especially when it comes to clutch offense, and you can easily tell that by comparing the Rockets clutch offensive rating (109.7 - ranked 18th) to the Celtics (111.2 - ranked 16th). Rockets 16-17 record in the clutch shows the terrible coaching, while Celtics being 12-14 shows how great Joe is at getting them to execute well in the clutch. Also we can probably ignore the Celtics have had by FAR the easiest SOS in the league, at least with Dunks and Threes numbers (Rockets were around the middle of the pack). Clear evidence that Joe is a fantastic amazing coach, and Ime is garbage. Also let's blame Ime for making Payton Pritchard request a trade...when Ime was already gone and Joe was coach. Stupid Ime. Sorry I had that rant building up within me for a while, but I think the point of that tangent is some of the Ime criticism is just off in the logic/claims being used. I'm not even saying he's better than or as good as Mazzulla. But it does seem odd that some will hand-wave the team's success (despite injuries and other issues) and not give Ime any credit for that.
Good to hear some intelligent, nuanced coaching and I largely agree with @RC Cola I don't think Ime is a top 10 coach, he certainly makes mistakes, and he should probably get an offensive assistant in the offseason (based on the season ends). However, I don't understand why it's just impossible that Reed benefitted from accountability and standards? We have a very soft schedule but he looks more confident and decisive as the season goes on.
And without Steven Adams..... FVV being an underrated and less understood part of the Rockets success is not the same as attributing the success to one player.
I voted No 1. Sengun is not boxing out for rebounds and is not winning his individual match up, defensively. 2. Lazily getting up and down the court as if it’s preseason and routinely, getting blown by. 3. Not taking open shots, preferring to bulldoze into his opponent to draw a foul , complain non stop and still miss the FT Haven’t gone to a rockets game in DC in a minute and I really wanted to see my team and especially what the tv doesn’t show I saw it live! and me and my friend who doesn’t even watch basketball said that guy, she didnt know his name ,sucks. I tried to defend him, but she said, nah he sucks How is that all on Ime? Speaking of Ime, he was chewing them out constantly, but brought Redd close, brought Amen close and Sengun, He has his faults as a coach, but I believe Stone failed this team this year
The success is for the entire team, but players make the team. Rockets lost FVV, Green, and Brooks, but added KD and essentially Reed. I think the sum of data for FVV's career is very clear that FVV, prior to the injury, was a well-above-average player while taking in the context and consideration of other factors. On this year versus last year, I'd say the Rockets are about the same (68% winning percentage with FVV last season vs 63% this year). I'd have last year as likely slightly better, but that is mostly in that I trusted the defense and held out irrational hope that Jalen Green's minutes would decrease to allow more FVV and Amen backcourts. With as good as KD and Reed have been, I think even if viewed as the same this year to last is still high praise for FVV and Brooks as KD has been great. If it was just one season, maybe I could see thinking FVV just had a random year. The context is that FVV has played with a varied group of players, top offenses, bottom offenses, and almost all of them, those teams played significantly better with FVV than without.
"Steady Freddy" actually is an apt nickname for him, having seen the abomination without him, I personally can say I definitely think I underrated what he brings to the table. I feel the same about Dillon Brooks, I gave a lot of their credit unjustly to Ime for the turnaround tbh (though he still clearly carries his fair share of it.)
My view about coaching is that no (or very few) coaches are good for all situations. Most coaches are good for some types of teams and not good for other types. Udoka is clearly good for setting a disciplined culture for young players. This is why he could turn around a chaotic team and turned them into a respectable team at the upper sector of the Western conference. But he also has some glaring weaknesses. Now that the young players are starting to come into their own, the weaknesses became more pronounced while his strengths became less important. My point was, just because we were successful last season does not necessarily mean that Udoka is good for this team.
I have no intention of debating about FVV's importance. My post was not really about him, just to use him as an example to illustrate the faulty logic. I generally regard FVV more highly than most posters here (the vocal ones anyway). I just don't think he is the kind of player we should hang the fate of the season like he's a franchise level player.
Kind of simple on Mazzulla over-praise : Mazzulla won a recent title. Ime did not. Made worse with narrative that it was with "Ime's own team" The Rings Baby Rings(!) factor always gets a better boost. Like Greg Popovich was untouchable even 10 years past his coaching peak. (Though I think fans are getting even more impatient with coaches even after championships)
I'm not sure I agree with that view. Maybe a matter of semantics. I think a coach can have a general system that would apply in most/all situations, and if they're a high level NBA coach, they probably have been exposed to those things. As long as they have that and are able to adapt to their team's strengths and modern NBA conventions, that should probably go a long way to helping them succeed in a variety of situations. I think there have been multiple cases where seemingly good coaches struggled in certain situations. But I think in many (if not all) of those cases, there ended up being a disconnect between the front office, the coaching staff, and the players. I do believe that if you don't have all 3 of those groups aligned, you will not get good results. For example, MDA struggled in NY and LA, but I don't think it takes much to see that there was not much alignment going on in those places (vs places like PHX and HOU where there was alignment...well until there wasn't). In some of these cases, it seems clear that the front office and/or players simply had it wrong, and I'm not sure there was any coach who could make it work. If someone could convince Carmelo Anthony to play some defense and stop taking 20+ contested mid-range 2s, then I guess that would be the right coach for the situation, but at some point I might think it isn't the coach that is the wrong person for the situation. I'll note I've seen people compare Ime to Mark Jackson, which on the surface...sure. But I think people should take a closer look at what Mark Jackson was actually doing, and why he really lost his job. I don't think that was a "we need a different coach for a different phase of the team" kind of thing. As for Ime and this team specifically, I don't know if I sense too many similarities to the poor situations on other teams. Stone and Ime seem to be pretty aligned (well Stone hired him). They seem to want this identity of a tough, defensive oriented team that outworks other teams. As for Ime and the players, I'm more concerned about that, but Ime always seems to be praised by players, so I'm going to assume some alignment. KD (the "diva" I guess) seemed to describe an offensive system that matches what I believe is the offensive philosophy that Ime and Stone are going for, so I'm guessing he's generally on board (Ivey being on staff probably helps). If there was a reason to move on from Ime, I think it would come from this (right or wrong). I'll note that some of the complaints I see from fans about Ime would almost certainly cause misalignment (Amen as PG, general offensive philosophy, DFS minutes, etc.), so I am often puzzled by some of those complaints. Beyond that, I don't know why he couldn't be the one to take this team further. He's literally shown he can take 2 different teams in different stages of development and turn them into 50+ win teams. Of course with Boston, he took them to the Finals. And that Boston team is arguably a future version of what the Rockets are now, so I'm not sure why Ime wouldn't be a good fit for where this team currently is. If they can't make it, perhaps that's on Ime, but I also don't know if this roster would work regardless of who the coach is. I LOVE Tari Eason for example, but he's multiple years into the league, and he continues to have processing issues (on both sides of the ball). Again, I do have my complaints about Ime. I'm happy to focus on those. But I see a lot of complaints that don't make a ton of sense to me. If the team acted the way that some fans wanted, I think the results would likely be quite disastrous.
