You know we could make like the Nicene Council, take a vote on it, and solve the questionof WHEN right now.
I think the ACLU has done more to damage Christianity than Bush (although he hasn't helped). I do not mean to start a flame war or to say one religion is better than another but, to me at least, it seems like it's unacceptable to many people in America to be Christian. Take for example the recent episode of a company selling 'Gay Jesus Dolls'. I'm not going to say that it should be illegal to sell these because it's a capitalist country and you sell what you want as long as it makes money. What I wonder is what the outcry would have been had they been selling 'Gay Muhammad Dolls'. I don't want you guys to think I'm some fundamentalist Christian who is close minded (although for some reason to most non-Christians I think one follows the other). I also know that after 9/11 many Muslims faced a backlash. I'm just wondering if I'm the only one that feels that to objective (non-Christian and non-Muslims) bystanders, it's more acceptable to be a Muslim today than a Christian. P.S. I hope this isn't derailing the thread. To me these topics kind of fit together.
I understand what you are saying. The reason why my thoughts are a little different, is that I think the more damage comes from within than without. I don't think people complainging about manger scenes in public or whatever makes Christians look bad. I think it actually makes them appear more sympathetic. Those that are attacking can(not always) come of as petty, and vendictive. So in that aspect I believe that when people who wrap themselves very publically in Christianity but then don't behave accordingly they are the most damaging. This might actually be, at least in part, my own hangup. I'm extremely liberal, but I can't stand politcal corectness, neo-hippies who care more about protesting something than the actual issues involved. The reason is that they are tarnishing something I truly do believe in. If those things weren't around to distract from the issues we could actually have substantive debate. So I don't know for certain but it is possible that my own hang up about having a pure cause, religion or whatever is coloring my view on things.
The thing is that Christianity has gotten special treatment compared to other religions, or non-religion, for most of US history. Its only been relatively recently that groups like the ACLU have been pressing the US government to live up to the establishment clause and treat Christianity like any other religion that many Christians start feeling that Christianity is under attack. For instance a Christian state legislator in MN a few years ago pushed for bringing back prayer in school and displaying the Ten Commandments in court houses and railed against those liberals attacking religion yet he still wanted to keep the Dalai Lama from addressing the Legislature. IMO Christianity isn't under attack in America but it is losing its special place as THE American religion.
So it is unacceptable to be Christian in the most Christian industrialized country in the world? Where 75-80% of the country is Christian?
You know what's funny...the rest of the world's Christians don't see it that way at all. People come from all over the world as missionaries to the United States..particularly to minister to their own nation's people who now live in the US...because they can't imagine how one could be a Christian in this culture. Not a government thing...but a culture thing. I know two pastors...one from Brazil...another from Korea...that left their homelands and loved ones behind to do this here in Houston.
Everyone outside the US thinks that American consumer culture is evil and bad for our country (and theirs). Your two examples of Brazil and Korea are different because they are more "third world" and, thus, religious. There is going to be a serious clash within Christianity becaue the South (Latin America, Africa, Southeast Asia) are developing a really conservative and often mystical form of Christianity and are slowly migrating it back North. There is a religious leder in Africa, for example, who really wants to be the next pope. The Christianities are often so different that problems could arise. In any event, I am referring to whenever census reports or more informal large surveys are taken, Americans respond more religiously than any other industrialized world. Go to church more, pray more, believe more, more against abortion for moral reasons, believe in crationism more, hell/the devil more, etc.. That is all I meant.
i wasn't arguing with your point...just calling attention to an interesting side note. i think what many people in america call christianity is a far cry from what Christ seems to be asking of us, as his followers. and i think that's perceived worldwide by many believers. i had a friend from nigeria who is christian. she talked about her fear of coming to a culture that was really quite anti-christian, but was so subtle about it because the faces of christianity are everywhere. she would say, "sure...people go to church...but is it important to them here? in nigeria, no matter what...you make time for worship. you drive many miles and even if your tire blows out, you get out and walk to church and come back and fix the tire later." i tend to agree with her assessment, particularly in the south. people go to church and identify with christianity in a cultrual way..but not in a meaningful spiritual way. please understand that i obviously don't mean EVERYONE in the south. this is why i don't freak about the outward symbols being removed from public buildings and the like...they're a false religion for so many. they symbolize "the good old days" which weren't always so good and have very little to do with their real spiritual meaning.
Very nice insight and analysis. I love having rational, thinking conservatives on the board. It makes me feel like I'm not just trapped in a dittohead world and that there are true conservatives out there. Anyone who wants to can worship all they want either in church (synagogue, temple, mosque, whatever) or in private. There is no good reason to try to get religious idols placed on public property.
it's really not a political issue to me...but a spiritual one. one about the faith i share with many others. i think we as christians have far more we should be up in arms about...things happening or not happening in our own homes/churches/the rest of the world to not freak out about idols. we tend to make idols of these things, i think.
Do you think one of the factors is that they want to minister to immigrants in their own language and also what follows their own traditions? I can't say for Christian foreign missionaries but Buddhist monks will come to minister to Buddhist communities, like Vietnamese monks for Vietnamese Americans, than have those immigrants go to another Buddhist temple. For instance almost no immigrants from predominantly Buddhist Asian cultures will go to the local Zen Center which is primarily white Americans.
Yeah it seriously doesn't bum me out either. I just hope secularism doesn't become the new religion that we all must bow down to. That's why we need to build prettier churches.
They're 5 miles high as the crow flies Leavin' vapour trails against a blood red sky Movin' in from the east toward the west With balaclava helmets over their heads, yes! But if you think that jesus christ is coming Honey you've got another thing coming If he ever finds out who's hi-jacked his name He'll cut out his heart and turn in his grave Islam is rising The christians mobilising The world is on its elbows and knees It's forgotten the message and worships the creeds It's war, she cried, it's war, she cried, this is war Drop your possessions, all you simple folk You will fight them on the beaches in your underclothes You will thank the good lord for raising the union jack You'll watch the ships out of harbour And the bodies come floating back If the real jesus christ were to stand up today He'd be gunned down by the c.i.a. Oh, the lights that now burn brightest behind stained glass Will cast the darkest shadows upon the human heart But god didn't build himself that throne God doesn't live in israel or rome God doesn't belong to the yankee dollar God doesn't plant the bombs for hezbollah God doesn't even go to church And god won't send us down to allah to burn No, god will remind us what we already know That the human race is about to reap what it's sown The world is on its elbows and knees It's forgotten the message and worships the creeds Armageddon days are here again -The The
One life I'm gonna live it up I'm takin' flight I said i'll never get enough Stand tall I'm young and kinda proud I'm on top as long as the music's loud If you think I'll sit around as the world goes by You're thinkin' like a fool cause it's a case of do or die Out there is a fortune waitin' to be had You think I'll let it go you're mad You've got another thing comin' That's right here's where the talkin' ends Well listen this night there'll be some action spent Drive hard I'm callin' all the shots I got an ace card comin' down on the rocks If you think I'll sit around while you chip away my brain Listen I ain't foolin' and you'd better think again Out there is a fortune waitin' to be had You think I'll let it go you're mad You got another thing comin In this world we're livin' in we have our share of sorrow Answer now is don't give in aim for a new tomorrow Oh so hot no time to take a rest yeah Act tough ain't room for second best Real strong got me some security Hey I'm a big smash I'm goin' for infinity yeah If you think I'll sit around as the world goes by You're thinkin' like a fool cause it's a case of do or die Out there is a fortune waitin' to be had You think I'll let it go you're mad You've got another thing comin' -judas priest
