This is something I've been thinking a lot about lately. The article posted by Gifford in another thread inspired me to elaborate on this. Talking about Christians and George W Bush has really been on my mind a lot lately. I think that Bush is one of the 5 worst things that has threatened the Christian community in the twentieth century... at least in the United States. George W. Bush ran in 2000 claiming that his role model was Jesus Christ. I heard a Muslim professor speaking about this. He said that most practicing muslims don't want a seperation of Church of state, at least when it goes in their favor. The American Muslim population voted overwhelmingly for Bush in 2000. A large part of the reason for this was because Bush spoke about Jesus Christ as his role model, and to them that was a really good thing to have in leadership. However, most people didn't beleive that Jesus Christ would adopt a fist strike pre-emptive invasion policy against a nation that wasn't a threat to the U.S. to begin with. Bush's actions have been anything but in line with his proclaimed role model. He has also appointed an Attorney General, who wrote legal briefs defending the use of torture. That certainly isn't very Christ like. Yet all along Bush has worn his 'faith' on his sleeve, and speaks of it frequently. His words speak of a strong faith, but his actions go against it. Meanwhile he trumpets putting an amendment in our constitution to forbid gay marriage, and speaks openly against abortion. As a result many Christians who will never face either of those issues see this as moral leadership, and at least according to exit polls vote for Bush on these issues. CBS, and NBC refuse to show an add that welcomes gay people to church, claiming that it is too political. Bush frequently used divisive 'us and our values' aren't like them and their values' type speeches to further wedge these issues between us. Sadly things are turning increasingly dark for Christians in the U.S. The image of Christians is being horribly tarnished. More than that the message is being tarnished. The most visible spokesperson in our nation is claiming that Christ is his role model while following few of Christ's teachings.
What concerns me most is the blending of patriotism with the cross. The idea that the US is necessarily some chosen nation. The idea that we're a Christian nation, when you study our history. I think that seriously demeans what Christ means to Christians. The flag is nowhere close to the cross when it comes to my own values...my own life. No where even close. And I hear you...there is a lot of "deconversion" in explaining Christianity to people, simply because of the negative crap it gets associated with.
Couldn't agree more, Blade. I guess I never read the Apocryphal book of the Bible wherein Jesus sought to accumulate wealth and power, let the poor and sick fend for themselves as best they could, and led his nation into a war. It's funny, but I was raised to believe Jesus spurned such things. I guess not everyone has the same answers to the question "What would Jesus do?" "Turn the other cheek" sounds nice, but a bit impractical, no? We want our leaders to give Christ plenty of lipservice, but no REAL service. Choosing passive resistance and striving to care for the poor and lame would be too "weak." We want a STRONG AMERICA!! So we keep Jesus nice and safe, tucked away into token prayers and iconography, where his teachings won't stand in such stark contrast to our actions. I'm not thrilled to have George Bush, Jr. as the public face of America. I would abhor him to become the public face of Christianity, as well. Christianity is about humility, of which rich politicians and powerful men have little. That is why I would strongly prefer for them to have zero association with religion. Why any "conservative" would want the government sticking their grubby, decadent paws into issues of faith is beyond me.
Yes that is a problem also. I would still be against Bush's policies even if he hadn't claimed Christ as role model, or trumpeted his religion for personal gain, but it would have done less damage to Christianity. I think Bush probably feels sincere about his faith, but that hasn't stopped him from behaving the way he has. I wish I could ask him questions about it.
I don't think Bush damaged Christianity. People who are "anti-Christian" to begin with are the only ones using him as a reason to demean Christianity. True Christians and true seekers know better.
Maybe he didn't damage the religion itself, but he battered the image of that religion, and tarnished it for many outsiders looking in. I'm a Christian and not anti-Christian, but to me he puts a bad face on the religion. By claiming Christ as a role model, and then carrying out policy the way he has, it can easily serve for people who are wondering about Christianity to ask if that is the norm for Christians. One could say that the Crusades or Inquisition didn't harm Christianity either, but certainly those actions were carried out in the name of the religion but would seem to be against the principles of the religion as well.
The problem about religions, particularly Christianity and Islam, is that they are so broad and their histories have been enmeshed with politics that its easy to interpret them to justify almost anything. I heard a saying once about the Koran that it is like an ocean where you can get almost any fish. I think the Bible is the same way. While Jesus' views were primarily non-violent and what should be considered politically extremely liberal much of the Old Testament isn't. I'm sure GW Bush, Ashcroft and other self-professed Christians in the Admin. wouldn't have a problem finding plenty of material from the Old Testament to justify pre-emptive war, torture and even wealth accumulation. The other problem is that religions like Christianity and Islam that have become geared towards prosetlyzation always have a political dimension. They are almost by design meant to sway the passions of large numbers of people rather than encourage personal contemplation and questioning. This makes it easier for political leaders to wrap themselves up in it. This isn't to say that Christianity or Islam isn't contemplative or self-reflective but that most of our recent Christian political leaders aren't Benedictines but instead follow denominations that emphasize fervor over reflection.
actually, in truth...they step out of line from what their denominations hold as true. isn't bush methodist?? the methodist church was against the war in iraq, for example.
There is plenty of violence in the old testament, but Bush didn't name any of the old testament protagonists as his role model. He did name Jesus Christ as his role model. Since then his actions have not modeled Christ's. As far as the self reflection vs. persuasion, that might be another problem. Self reflection is also very Christlike(pull the log from your eye before worrying about the splinter in another's.) It can also be a genuine way to lead others by example, and encourage the spreading of the word in that way. However a lot of what has been done by conservatives lately isn't even persuasion. It has been an us vs. them kind of campaign. That doesn't tend to get people interested in seeking answers and spiritual truth from the bible.
So Max, just wondering, what do you believe the second coming will be? I was taught by a Franciscan monk, at my local Catholic High School back in 1986, that it is actually the final evolution of man. Like in the movie 2001 or something. Human nature will become enlightened to a christ-like nature (or something to that effect). But that was a long time ago and my memory is a bit fuzzy... I really haven't ever gave much thought to it or researched it much.
Glorified bodies? I think thats probably what he meant, bodies that can only come through Christ though according to Catholic doctrine... but I don't think the Catholic teaching is about evolution of man in a normal Darwinian way...
Well, we can look to Christ and the Glorified body he had upon raising from the dead...not saying How it will happen but an indicator into some of the effects and such...
