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Appel over Bryant looking more depressing...

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by TMAC3, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. Sydeffect

    Sydeffect Member

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    I haven't been keeping up much with the Astros, but this past season I've slowly started to enjoy watching baseball.

    I remember hearing Appel was playing horribly, has the perception on him changed? Are Astros fans still optimistic about him?
     
  2. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    The "perception" has changed because he excelled as soon as he got away from the launch-pad of Lancaster, along with further recovery from his appendectomy and lack of spring training.

    He also had a very good AFL, and was just fine this spring.

    If he's at full strength and healthy, he should start pitching to the level the Astros expected him to.
     
  3. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    Schafer was also on opening day roster for Braves a year or so before Heyward. He ended up needing to go back down to the minors, so it didn't matter though. Both were on Frank Wren's watch.
     
  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Kris Bryant has an OPS of 1.7 this spring..... he has 9 homers in 40 at bats .... and you are claiming his strike outs are why he needs more time in the minors? He is 23 years old, not 18 years old.. and he hit 43 homers last year in the minors. The ONLY reason that Bryant isnt your starting third baseman is because the Cubs do not want to lose a year of service time. PERIOD.
     
  5. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Go work on that defense. ;)

    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cubs?src=hash">#Cubs</a> option Baez to Iowa. Bryant and Russell assigned to Minor league csmp</p>&mdash; Carrie Muskat (@CarrieMuskat) <a href="https://twitter.com/CarrieMuskat/status/582585633526263809">March 30, 2015</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
     
  6. Nippystix

    Nippystix Member

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    Haha man, the denail in this one is strong.

    It seems...strange...to me that a fan would be so unequivocally defend Theo Epstein. I mean, first of all, there is no need to even defend him. He is clearly sending Bryant down for service clock reasons (i.e. financial reasons), and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The players agreed to this system in the CBA, and this is well within the rights of teams to do so.

    But then the hypocrisy comes in when you, on one hand, defend Theo Epstein, but then condemn Scott Boras. As an agent, he is among the best, and this is coming from an Astros' fan that doesn't really like him. But, just like it is business for why Epstein is intelligently keeping Bryant down for 2 weeks, why hate an agent that does a very good job of maximizing his clients' earnings? It's a business both ways right?

    And of course Epstein has never started a rookie with a big league club, because he has previously delayed service times! Haha to use this as evidence is hilarious. There is nothing wrong with what the Cubs are doing, but if you genuinely believe that Bryant was sent down for any reason other than getting an extra year of cost-controlled service, then that kool-aid Epstein serves must be strong as hell.
     
  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The only issue I have with it is that Luhnow did it with Springer when the Astros were trying to lose, and Springer had more warts to his game.... and the baseball media establishment flipped out about it.... now the Cubs do it and the baseball media says little about it.
     
  8. Nippystix

    Nippystix Member

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    I concur, but after many, many years as a Rockets/Astros/Texans fan, I have come to accept the national bias against all that is Houston.

    They hated us before, now add two competent and great GM's in Morey and Luhnow who they see as a threat, and it's only going to get worse, not better.
     
  9. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Springer was a year older.... spent one more year in the minors... and all that extra time still likely doesn't change who he is all that much (or not to the point where he couldn't have made those same improvements at the MLB level... which he's going to continue to have to do as is). Combine that with the Astros actively not fielding a MLB team, and you have more reasons to criticize. (and of course, you find out after the fact that he would have been promoted sooner... had he agreed to a long-term extension).

    If Bryant was held down all of this year... AND to start next season... then it becomes closer to the same thing.
     
    #89 Nick, Mar 30, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2015
  10. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Regardless of age, years, etc., the essential fact is that each team sent a major league ready player to the minors in order to improve their club control. In that vein, it is the same thing.

    Also, it is assumed that Bryant would help the Cubs (a team considered more playoff ready than the Astros last year), win a few more games, whereas any games Springer would have helped the Astros win would have been moot in terms of a playoff chase. Combine that with the Cubs trying to make the playoffs and you have more reasons to criticize the Cubs' move.
     
  11. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    There is no national "bias"... of course some markets certainly get more favorable attention due to their size and following, but there are zero markets that consistently get "negative" attention.
     
  12. ItsMyFault

    ItsMyFault Contributing Member

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    I guess we'll see in a few weeks.

    I'll happily eat crow if I'm wrong.
     
  13. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    And it is being criticized... and would be criticized a helluva lot more if they kept him down for all of 2015 and didn't promote him till early 2016.

    The length of time does impact this situation.

    Most baseball experts believed Springer would likely have been promoted some time in 2013, especially after he began dominating... and at the very least a September callup for a market that was literally starving. THAT was when the Astros got the brunt of criticism.

    By the time 2014 hit, it was obvious that he wasn't going to make the team for service time reasons... and most people understood why (just like they do now with Bryant). I actually thought they'd keep Springer down till the super-2 deadline, but I guess even Crane knows that would have been a ridiculous premise.
     
  14. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    I've spoken directly with Astro FO personnel who assured me that their concern for Springer's K rate at the minor league level was a legitimate one. This was last spring, and they were roughly projecting Springer to essentially be Preston Wilson; that the only ML'er they could find who struck out as much as Springer but still went on to hit at the MLB level was Ryan Howard, and he was considered a ridiculous anomaly.
     
  15. Nippystix

    Nippystix Member

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    I'd respectfully disagree.

    *cue the Anthony Davis pic
     
  16. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Springer is still going to be an anomaly (regardless of the time he spent in the minors).... there has never been a player that strikes out as much as he does, but also is super-selective in his pitches (and draws walks).

    He swings and misses at hittable pitches... and hits them a long ways too.

    There is every reason to be "concerned" about his K tendencies, along with embracing his true power.

    (and again, they offered him a contract to be promoted earlier than your conversation... service time was still the primary focus).
     
    #96 Nick, Mar 30, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2015
  17. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Why would the national media "hate" Houston? I can understand being indifferent, or they don't need to go out of their way to "promote" Houston as there's not a huge following of Houston fans around the country like other teams... but there is no "negative" bias.

    If anything, media going out of their way to be "negative" to a certain city/team would actually require more work/effort/scrutinizing to do so... almost a sign of "respect".
     
  18. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Oh, I'm not arguing service time WASN'T an issue (and they didn't deny it, btw - they're/we're not fools). It simply wasn't the ONLY issue. Their concerns were legitimate. In fact, they brought Springer up to meet with us and he mentioned needing to work on reducing his Ks while sheepishly looking Luhnow's way... It was absolutely on their radar. I'm sure service time made it a *bigger* issue; but it was still an issue.
     
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  19. awc713

    awc713 Member

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    MLB draft is, and always has been, a crapshoot. One of my biggest pet peeves is when people try and look back on drafts, saying team X botched this draft pick because player Y went later. It's a crapshoot. Look at the history of 1st round picks. Maybe 1/3rd of 1st rounders go pro. That's crazy! The "bust" rate among top picks in baseball is far higher than in any other sport. And its not close.

    Criticism due to picks re: being cheap are 1000% valid. But that's not happened with Bryant. In fact, Appel was the more expensive pick. Appel was nearly every respected experts' #1 pick. It's not like the Astros affirmatively screwed up this draft by being cheap. It is what it is. They too kthe best prospect available, at the time, and another prospect has since skyrocketed at an unprecedented rate. If you're pissed we picked Appel over Bryant, you don't know how baseball drafts work. And I loved Bryant out of the draft. Regardless, Appel will still be a solid pro, and I look forward to his tenure as an Astro.
     
  20. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Adam Dunn
     

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