Sometimes it is the "non" trades that make all the difference. Remember that this summer we offered OsterFat our ENTIRE MLE. He turned us down and went with the Kings. So we then turned around and made the Mutombo trade and got Sura. Let's see Sura and Mutombo or OsterFAT? Which would you rather have? Scary! As for Cassell for Howard. It is tempting to make the move because Cassell's contract ends after next season and we would be lopping off Howard's MUCH longer term deal. But while we would plug the PG hole, we would leave a gaping PF hole. And when Sura comes back how does Sura mesh with Cassell? Does Sura then go to the bench as our 6th man? With James we get a nice chemistry fit. A guy that will accepting being Sura's backup and plays tough defense. We dont get from under Howard's longer term deal, but being able to move Taylor's contract kind of makes up for it. At the end of next season Howard will be the ONLY bad contract on our roster and we will have TON of expiring contract money. I agree with NIKE, that if we HAD made the Cassell deal, I could easily see us look to do a 1st rounder +TE for Marshall. In the end though, I like what CD did. We got a solid backup PG for cheap and were able to lop off an extra year of bad contract and have all our bad contracts end at the SAME TIME!
That wouldve been a great trade for us. Cassell is clutch - as we all know. He has playoff moxie which is not easy to find and probably wouldve welcomed coming back to Houston. Plus, Juwan Howard's contract is terrible and long and he's not good enough to justify it. That sucks we didn't make the deal..
So then what happens when Sam gets hurt AGAIN? We have Sura (when healthy himself) with Moochie as a backup, but are now left with Baker, Spoon, and Padgett at the 4 for the WEST playoffs, ouch, no thanks... Let the TWolves self-distruct peacefully and at thier leisure...
Trade away Howard and you're left with either Spoon or Baker as you're Starting PF. if we had a descent PF to rely on, sure pull the trigger, but not with baker as you're other real viable Option.
$5+ for a good PF like Howard is a "terrible" contract? I understand the length of the contract is not great, but for a starting big man, I think his money is not that bad, especially considering we gave a one deminsional player like Taylor $9 mill/per year to be our 4. Howard is a better player/more professional and has career averages of 17pt/7 Rb, and is not that old or anything, and is not way past his prime. Not bad!
If we traded for Cassel...we would have kept MoT and he would be our new starter. Our starting 5 would be Cassel MoT TMac Yao Wessley There is no way we would have traded for Moochie and Vin Baker if we pulled the trigger on the Cassel trade. By us getting Mike James, that alleviated the need for Cassel and thereby facilitated the MoT trade. I'm glad we didn't do it because the disrupts 2/5ths of our starting lineup.
You have more respect for Howard's game than I do. He's about as good a player as Mo, makes less money but for more years. I think he's about as big an albatross as Mo. Krosfyah, I disagree that this trade would have affected Mo's trade. Even if we lost Spoon, Baker and Padgett too, VG would still have shipped Mo out. Maybe we'd start Zendon Hamilton or something. Even so, I don't think Howard-Cassell is doable without another trade for a starting 4.
Well, I didn't say better, I said about as good. They both are weak on the boards, mediocre on defense, and are decent scorers. The main difference is that Howard's gotten along ok with Van Gundy and Mo has not.
I don't know that Sam would have been the right guy for this team, right now (would love to have him, but still). He was the right piece for Minnesota last season, but he's not putting up the same numbers this year. On the other hand, Howard's not putting up anything to write home about, either. He's clearly lost a step from his 17/7 days. He's a journeyman now, about the same player as MoT, and that's just not that good. And his game isn't a fit for this club any more than Mo's is. Otherwise, we wouldn't constantly be talking about PF as a need area on this team. I wouldn't have minded making the move just to clear the salary.
Howard's averaged 17 and 7 his entire career. Mo's averaged 10.5 and 4.65 in his Rocket career. The closest he's come to Howard numbers was his last year in L.A. when he averaged 17 and 6.5. Obviously, Howard's not putting up the stats he has in the past, but he's shown more hustle and heart this season than Taylor has ever shown as a Rocket. And he's still putting up better rebounding numbers than Mo ever has as a Rocket, except for his first year.
Obviously, the coach felt very different than you. If Mo was just as good a fit as Howard, then he'd have been playing.
I read once that any statement that's preceded by "obviously" or "clearly" is likely to be neither. While it's true that Taylor is benched and Howard is starting, it's also a fact that Taylor last year produced as good or better numbers than Howard is producing this year, with about the same playing time. Plus, Mo's rapid demotion from starter to injured list this season suggests that he was in JVG's doghouse. Why was Mo in the doghouse? It could be Mo's play on the court diminished to the point where Scott Padgett and Clarence Weatherspoon surpassed his production, but I think it's more likely that there was a personality conflict between Jeff and Mo. In other words, what you say is "obvious", isn't. Given 2 guys with similar games, one of whom is by all accounts a model citizen who's a hard-worker and solid teammant, and one of whom is a pothead who's often lazy and lacks work ethic, JVG chose the "good guy." Further, Howard demonstrated early in the season that he's just not very good coming off the bench behind Mo, he's a more effective starter than bench player. That's not to say that JVG think Howard is a great fit for the team. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets moved as soon as we find a Kelvin Cato-like defender to start alongside Yao.
Not sure why you're arguing with me. You asked if I really thought Mo was better than Howard and I told you. Also not sure why you're comparing Howard's career stats to Mo's Rockets stats. Howard will never be a 17/7 player again. Why not compare their respective tenures as Rockets? Or Mo's last year (when he was still in JVG's favor) to Howard this year? Last Year Mo: Min: 27.39 Pts: 11.39 Rebs: 5 FG%: 47.95% TO: 1.95 This Year/Rocket Career Howard: Min: 25.79 Pts: 9.34 Rebs: 5.43 FG%: 44.9% TO: 1.13 Rocket Career Mo: Min: 25.38 Pts: 10.5 Rebs: 4.65 FG%: 46.68% TO: 1.75 Look comparable on paper (with a slight edge to Mo on scoring and a slight edge to Howard on turnovers and rebounds).
We'll never know but Howard and Mo were redundant. MoT was otherwise servicable. I doubt we'd take Vin/Moochie and rely on Vin as our starter. MoT is not perfect but he is servicable as a starter. Vin isn't a starter by any definition. I doubt he can even play enough minutes without embarassing himself like Strickland did. MoT can at least play the minutes...not very well...but can.
I think since Juwon's been picked by JVG as the guy, he's put up better numbers. His current numbers are skewed by the first month and a half of the season when this team was in disarray and we didn't know who our full-time 4 is. I don't think there's anyone else out there who would argue that Juwon Howard is about as good as Mo Taylor. Talent-wise, maybe, but the judging by the product on the floor, Juwon is better. That's why I was arguing with you. By saying Juwon is "about as good" as Mo, you're saying you think Mo is better, even if it's not by much. I think that's incorrect. EDIT: A quick look at his stats since 12/15 (the game he started getting the bulk of the minutes) shows he's averaging 10.5 and 6.17 rebounds per game. Not much better. I guess I am arguing about nothing.
for our situation, pretty much. i would agree with JV that taylor is the slightly better player. talent-wise, mo has a much more developed offensive game and can create his own shot better. defensively, neither rebounds or blocks shots. i suspect if you could somehow put them on every team in the league and then average their performance, mo would come out on top. i definitely think if it was an atlanta or new orleans type team where either was expected to be a go to guy, mo would do better. for the rockets, tracy and yao are the go to guys and everyone else is supposed to hit the open jumper. since both mo and juwan do that, they are redundant. and since juwan fits in with jvg and wins the "professionalism" and chemistry battle, he gets to play and mo goes in the doghouse. and it's hard to argue it should be the other way around given our recent success. but if you're another team for some reason looking at either one of these guys and want the better player regardless of contract, you'd take mo, imo.
At the beginning of season Howard still had like 10 plus whatever seasons of nothing under 17 ppg so not like Howard sucks but whatever not a lopsided deal if you look at careers one was underachieving 17 and 8 man the other was a overachieving 2nd round pick who wines.
