More power helps, but Bagwell's eye, power that wasn't chopped liver, bat-to-ball skills, incredibly high level of baserunning skill, and just his ability to process everything that is going on to make great decisions in the moment was defintely a gift. Buck uses the term baseball smarts. I don't think anyone explained to him to not swing at tough pitches whether in the zone or not or to swing at good pitches. If they did, they weren't nearly as suscessful at teaching others at that time. it has been a long time since I'vce seen him play, but I don't recall anything that an analytical organization of today would try to change about how he played. I just don't think you could tell players today to play like Bagwell played and it would work because the vast majority of them don't process the game as quickly as him.
Unfairly or not... the surge in power in the bigs is what has him scrutinize as a potential juicer. But he has never tested positive or ended up any legitimate list.
I was talking about fielding and running and situational "brain" stuff, not "see ball, hit ball" hand-eye coordination stuff.
I read an interview decades ago with a scout that watched him in AA and said the sound off his bat was the same as the great hitters of the past. He did have 34 doubles and 7 triples that year and, of course, was never a burner so he had to have some pop. You know what they say " doubles at 22 become HR at 27."
I just posted it in the wrong thread…. It’s in the game one though. I’ll just go back to reading this fascinating Bagwellian discussion… got nothing to add.
No kidding…. This is some high level **** right here. I thought it was just about Bagwell and his announcing tendencies to romanticize about the things he/they cared about (that may be en vogue again). But this is Mensa-level conversation right now… prime 2013 Astros sub-forum BBS stuff. Will be back in a few.
Nah, you're a good dude. One of my other favorite Simpsons bits is when he's an astronaut... 3...2...1..."make rocket go now"
This is a very good point. Bagwell looks at a player through his lens of how he was a HOF. No one can replicate what Bagwell had to do to be as good as he was. HOF players are rarely successful at being in front offices because they have inherit biases based on how their career went.
I don’t disagree with you that Bagwell had a high natural intellect for the game of baseball. However - I don’t think that keeps him from being able to coach the game or teach people. Bagwell also worked very hard. While his personal life was a disaster, going through two marriages- being cheated on and cheating himself - and being deeply in love and loved by an Astros front office employee - before deciding that he would not break up her family… and then ending up with Dr. Brown’s wife… and all the alcoholism and depression…. Through all of that, he always worked out twice a day, always worked with pitchers and hitters and played a big part in scouting reports… so it wasn’t all natural ability or just rolling out bed like Joe DiMaggio and hitting. I know a few years ago the last line of defense for hitters on the Astros wasn’t the manager or hitting coach, it was Jeff Bagwell. He would study their swings, the mechanics with help from the video people and was very helpfully - at least that is what guys like Correa and Altuve and Gurriel said. Im not saying I think Bagwell should be the manager or coach or have the final say (he doesn’t and hasn’t), but when it comes to what is happening on the field, Bagwell has a very high understanding and he is good one on one with at least some guys.
Sounds like baseball may have been what held him together. Folks going through personal crisis need a constant in their life. Something untainted by whatever they are going through.
Bagwell has discussed it in relation to other questions from the press before. I have flat out asked him before when I was working the Astros manual scoreboard while in the Astros pre-game meal. Basically he said yes it was a decision he made - he sacrificed some average and contact for power and the anticipated increase in walks. However he said when he did it, he didn’t think of it as simply changing as a player. From what I remember he said third basemen that hit for average didn’t have job security like guys with power. He brought up Bill Madlock and Carney Langsford as examples… so he worked on his body, with added strength he noticed he turned on balls inside easier and he made adjustments that led to him being a slugger…. He had a lot of respect for Tony Gwynn but said he was an outlier. Jose Altuve has talked about changing his approach as well - it was a decision he made with the hitting coach and I want to say Carlos Beltran. Altuve is a very inspiring story - the Astros told him at try outs that they were not interested and the next day he showed up again and then the day after that before he sold himself to them. Having said that- scouts and fans SEVERELY undersell his hand-eye coordination. He has some amazing reflexes and coordination.
Season has begun as close to a perfect storm as possible. - Injuries --- we already knew about the IL guys before the opener, but then Framber goes down - Hunter Brown's attempt to make history for the largest regression for a 1st career full-season to the second - Abreu's attempt at setting the record for futility by a first basemen, both offense and defense - Strength of schedule - Largest regression by an established bullpen trio in history - ONE open date first 21 days... further taxing the pitching staff - Opponent's luck (bloops, squibblers, and "extra" bases) vs ours ---- this will even out, but it began in opponent's favor - one-run games --- Astros are 0-4 The only unexpected bright spots are Blanco (awesome bright spot), Pena, and the middle relief. Exhale... Astros will get healthier. First base will improve (can't get any worse) whether it's Singleton's 700 OPS, Caratini/Diaz combo, or Loperfido. Brown will either pitch better as starter or in the bullpen. Astros won't play 20 games in 21 days with 5 staters injured. Abreu/Pressly/Hader will perform. Astros' won't finish minus-500 in "luck" discrepancy compared to their opponents. We won't play playoff contenders every series. We'll win a one-run game. All likelihood suggests the Astros will easily win 90+ games. There's simply too much talent and experience. The season just began in the form of a perfect storm. .
