I want to know why some self-proclaimed liberals support the brutal, totalitarian, anti-human rights, dystopian government of China? To advance a liberal cause people should applaud anyone taking them on.
Me either. There's a Chinese poster who supports China's position, but what "liberals" on here support China v. Hong Kong protestors? And good lord, why does every thread have to bash American liberals or American conservatives. It would seem this is one place we good pull in the same direction, more or less.
What on earth are you talking about, @dachuda86? I haven't said one word of support regarding what you rightly describe as the brutal, totalitarian, anti-human rights, dystopian government of China. Not in years. Quite the opposite, as is true of the other liberals in this forum, in my opinion. We may not agree about everything, and it's a trait that liberals, Democrats in particular (who are not all liberal, believe it or not), share. Disagreeing about all sorts of stuff. But the regime in China? If it were to disappear tomorrow, replaced by a more humane, free society, I think we would all stand up and cheer. Have you been taken down the wrong path again by some goofy website? It wouldn't surprise me.
The situation in HK doesn't mirror US political views. In many ways the protesters are adopting the tactics and look of Antifa while the pro-PRC side are adopting the law and order rhetoric of American conservatives. On the other hand the PRC is an officially Communist country while many of the protesters are bringing back colonialist imagery such as flying the old colonial flag of the Crown Colony. I think it is a mistake for Americans or others to try to frame the protest in regard to overarching Leftist or Rightist views and especially to frame them within US partisan politics. More than that though I think it would be a very big mistake for the people of HK to frame them in those terms too. PRC propaganda is that these protests are foreign organized and are attempts by outsiders to intervene in Chinese affairs. If they were to clearly associate themselves with US politics the PRC would interpret that as a clear sign that they are foreign intervention and give more reason for a very harsh response. Further if HK protesters are identified with US partisanship that would lessen greatly complicate support / or opposition to them in the US and would just add more fuel to our already partisan divide.
Hmm too late for that. Pity under the shallow shell of bravery and clever PR tricks, these protester kids lack real intelligence. Some protesters are dreaming of getting people's support from mainland China but the moment they bring out the word independence and start wave American flags, that chance is already gone. They get despised even within Hong Kong itself. Anyone knows any Chinese history would understand sovereignty and territorial integrity are among the things Chinese people value the most. Hong Kong is a part of China, the only thing that can possibly change that is a war. Don't expect Beijing to take any step back on this. It must be easy to think that the riot policemen, all the pro-Beijing rallies around the globe, and social media voices and were sent by Beijing government. Stomping on a Chinese national flag is quite enough to make any Chinese people around globe your enemy.
Nothing is going to stop them from flying the Union Jack or the American flag. They see it as a symbol of embracing the Western value and want to attract international attention. The Chinese propaganda means nothing to them because the Chinese government are going to accuse them of being mobilized by foreign powers whether or not they fly the flags and the ordinary people here generally view China's opinion as bullshit. I think it really has very minimal impact on China's eventual decision on Hong Kong. The general consensus among the protesters here is that the only chance for Hong Kong to achieve freedom and democracy is by getting help from the West. And they are also gambling on the fact that the world is not prepared to accept another Tiananmen massacre in Hong Kong. They think there are many good reasons why they won't send PLA troops into Hong Kong. Even if they send in the troops, some radical protesters think that it is good for Hong Kong because it would provoke a stronger and harsher reaction from the West against China. The protesters here plan to continue to resort to violence to raise the profile of the protest and attract foreign attention but the government has made it clear that they will not budge and will continue to arrest the protesters until the number of protesters dwindles.
Do you support the country that committed the war crime in Iraq? Did half million dead Iraqi people have human rights? You can pull out all your Trump style labels, but do you ever want to know how Chinese people feel toward their government? Chinese tripled their personal income in latest 10 year period. There's applaud for sure. How was your not so brutal, totalitarian, anti-human rights, dystopian government doing in these 10 years, other than bombing here and there? anything that is positive except the damn God in Trump?
Ashleyem and KingLeoric's posts illustrate what I'm saying and why the HK situation is both delicate and dangerous and also why it would be a mistake to look at what is happening there through Western partisan lens. While many in HK look to the West to help support their cause the PRC is very clear that the one area where they will use force is if they could lose a part of China. Even with Taiwan they've stated the red line they have is if Taiwan declare's outright independence. Further within HK itself opinions are very divided and while outside we hear more about the anti-PRC side there are a lot of pro-PRC people there too. It's possible that HK could descend into civil war, which would also invite a PRC crackdown.
Trump labels? Nope, just facts about one of the worst countries. Yeah the US is not perfect, and I've been very out spoken against all wars it engaged in, as I don't support such actions. I've done more than you about it probably. But at least the US, for all its sins, doesn't oppress its own people into the ground for communism. China lied about its economy to triple its number and those idiots in charge of the US have done nothing until now. China also steals intellectual property to the tune of billions, and it makes inferior products. Hey, you are interested in the deaths caused by the US? Let's talk about how many Chariman Mao killed. Let's do it. Let's talk about how many people get told they can't use a bus or train because they don't have the right social credit. Let's talk about how it treats the Uygurs and literally places them in concentration camps. Not detainment camps but actual concentration camps today based on their religion. The US made China what it is, and it can take it away just as easily. There are many places willing to abuse their workers for the sake of corporate profits.
We're still a global superpower and economic powerhouse with free speech and other constitutional rights. I'd rather live these "hard times" in American than China, that's for sure. Are you done spewing your propaganda?
I can't wait to read what he says... I wonder if he is a paid propagandist or just trying to up his social credit by posting this nonesense. WNBA, wink if you are being held up by an oppressive social credit system to post this garbage by a communist totalitarian state.
last Fri, Trump labeled Xi as the enemy of the people; yesterday, Trump labeled Xi as a great man. which trump label are you talking about ? that only underscores your ignorance, ignorant of such workarounds as third-party confirmation, trend analyses, and other econometric tools.
Protester kids' leaders Joshua Wong and Nathan Law were photographed meeting Julie Eadeh, the political unit chief of the US Consulate General in Hong Kong.
ok, ur too dense to understand what econometrics is. let me put in in way that even mental midgets such as you can understand 30 yrs ago, in China, there were one or two McDonalds and KFC; but no Pizza Huts, Starbucks nor bullet trains in 2019, there are over 2,700 MCDs, 4,200 KFC, 1,200 Pizza Huts, 5,500 Starbucks, as well as 550 pairs of bullet trains run daily thru out 550 Chinese cities
