Yep. Harden’s bricking brought him down. Westbrook’s rare dominant game buoyed Hardens atrocious start. Just like Westbrook bricking for most the season has brought everyone else down. Harden went supernova when Westbrook was sitting. Really skewed things. Doesn’t change the fact that Hardens bricking is why we needed him to go supernova to pull this one out. Just like we have needed Harden to go supernova most games to make up for Westbrook’s brickfests.
You told me during the game that the +/- properly explained Harden's poor play and Russ good play...but as we can see, it didn't properly credit Russ with a great game, a -3...which was my point the whole time. This night is a clear example of the +/- betraying what happened in a game.
basketball gods watched this debate and decided to send a sign! you're a prophet Jay! dont expect disbelievers to believe the signs of the lord
He wasn't anywhere close to being a negative tonight, lol. He had one of his best games of the season. If he can consistently play like he did tonight he'd be great for us, but he hasn't been doing that for the season. The second Russ gets his TS% to 55%, and his A/TO ratio above 2 to 1, I'll be the first one to give him props. Here's what he did right tonight, he limited his outside shots and focused on attacking the paint, and the crazy thing, is that he didn't limit his outside shooting enough. Russ didn't miss a single shot within 0-3 feet tonight, outside of 0-3 feet? 1 for 9. We need to tell, or convince, Russ to STOP shooting anything but layups and dunks. If he does that he instantly becomes a MUCH better player.
Westbrook was smart tonight, under control, and naturally had his best game maybe of the year. Frustrating knowing he will not play like this usually, but it is possible. Good to see.
Must be. This game basically did all the talking for me. One, it proved that the stats some rely on aren't as accurate as one might expect. There is no holy grail stat that tells how good/bad a player is playing. It doesn't exist. If it did, no one would ever miss out on good players, there would never be busts. Two, Russ CAN carry the load for Harden and can ease Harden having to do everything. We saw that tonight with Harden starting off poorly and there was Russ. For people that say "Finally he carries the team!" Well, that's what having two actual stars is like. One can show up when the other is struggling, that's a good thing, and on the nights they both play well, that's a great thing. I don't even have to post in here tonight or toot my horn, this game said everything I've been saying. Stats don't tell the full story and Russ can still dominate. Definitely his best game BUT he started off the season playing well too. Looks like when you put shooters and guys that run the court with Russ he can thrive.
Hmm....I just wanna say, Brodie was great tonight, but you guys have to remember Aaaron Baynes did not play tonight and the Suns defense hasnt been great, Im optimistic but I want to see him do this to teams with good rim protectors as well.
Well you cant really get to the rim Everytime realistically. Sometimes it's like end of shot.clock and there's no other options
At the time of the post that was completely accurate of what was happening. The thing is we have years of +/- info to draw from. There’s just not a realistic possible way that this entire season it’s all just been tough luck that Westbrook has been extremely subpar. On the whole Westbrook minutes, unless leveled out by Harden, have been losing minutes. You keep trying to convince me that other players bricking is why Westbrook May have a skewed +/-, yet you are somehow ignoring how all of Westbrook’s bricking has negatively affected everyone else’s.
He definitely capitalized on both Baynes and Ayton being out. But he still had a phenomenal game. I don't even need him to play as well as he did tonight to change my opinion of him. He was great tonight. No doubt. We wouldn't have won without him. Hats off. Hope he continues to do it. I'd love to be wrong.... I still don't think I'm wrong though. I think he'll pull a game like this out every now and again but more often than not he'll be a detriment to the team. And again, I hope he proves me wrong. If he doesn't the team I love is up **** creek for the next 4 years. Obviously i'd love to have him prove me so wrong that I go get a Westbrook tattoo. But I'm not optimistic.
I don't think one game really proves your point...unless your point was that Westbrook can occasionally have good games. I think we already knew that. If he played this way consistently this thread wouldn't even need to exist and we'd all be happy about the trade. Also, the stats posted in this thread aren't predictive - they don't tell us what's going to happen, they tell us what's already happened. If the stats say Westbrook was bad in the first 21 games, and then someone here says "Westbrook was bad for the first 21 games", then he plays well in game 22, that doesn't make the stats "wrong". You don't get to "told you so." The only story that the "stats" told was that he wasn't playing well up to that point.
When he can't get to the rim he's got to pass the ball, some nights the paint might be packed and he might only get up 5 FGA, his PPG would likely drop to around 15 for the season, but all of that's fine because he'd be playing winning basketball.
So do you think it was accurate by the end of the night? I'm not sure why you trust this stat so much man, +/- has always been incredibly flawed..
More than one game. He's had several this year, including one against the Bucks. No, it's not that Russ can have 'Good' games. It's more than that. It's that Russ can take over games completely. Also on your 2nd part, this is where you are wrong. The stats say, the stat that people are judging Russ by...said TONIGHT he had a bad game. That's what the stat say. So yes, I do get to say I told you so. The stat said Russ was a -3 tonight. Do you agree that Russ was a -3 tonight?
NAILED IT BTW none of THE statistics actually says anything...numbers dont speak in words...ppl always attach their opinion to the numbers, that is, they interpret the statistics...its always about the opinion that is about the eye test
I didn't realize you were talking specifically about single game +/-, You just wrote "stats" in the post I was quoting. But if that's what we're talking about, then yeah, it did a pretty poor job of showing his impact tonight.
That’s the thing about statistics. There’s always outliers. They give you a great look at the big picture of a big sample size. That’s why stats should be one of many tools a coach uses to make decisions. Stats don’t account for a player being injured, tired, sick, frustrated, confident, etc. at a specific point in a single game either. For example, over the course of an 82 game season, the midrange shot is less efficient for most players than a 3. But in a single game, a player might be on fire hitting every mid range jumper in sight and the opponent might be in foul trouble and playing small while the refs are calling touch fouls. In that case you throw the 82 game stat out the window and you ride the hot hand. Stats have their place. But they are not the holy grail some people think they are. Games like tonight just shine a light in the limitations of those numbers in a small sample size. So keep that in mind when it’s game 7 and there’s 2 minutes left in the season. What shot do you really want to take? The one that you have the best chance of hitting or the one that’s most efficient over an 82 game sample size? The coach had better go with his gut at that point based on all the variables in that specific situation. The 3 might be better, but then again the midrange 2 might be. And I think all coaches understand that and do take it in to account while the nerds get out there calculators and start in on the 3>2 BS. Anyway, great game by Westbrook. I hope MDA talked to him about shot selection and it’s starting to sink in. I’m going to assume that’s what happened and give MDA credit when Westbrook is in control if I’m going to blame him when he lets Westbrook run wild. Those of you who think Westbrook just does whatever he wants and it’s not on the coach to convince him to play a more efficient game need to give Westbrook his props then for being a smart and efficient player. Because he played the right way tonight. And since you claim it’s not MDA’s job then Westbrook must have figured it out on his own.
Melo did it... The very first midrange jumper he took, he made it and then on the way back down the court, he looked at MDA and genuinely pounded his own head like "oops, I forgot coach". That was great IMO, it showed that he was willing to break habits, and showed me that MDA had laid down the law. I've seen nothing like this with Russ. And if Russ gonna Russ, then come playoff time we gonna lose gonna lose.
My biggest fear is that during the playoffs in the last 5 minutes of games (if not the whole game), teams will double Harden and that will increase the amount of decisions that Russ has to make as the ball handler. A recipe for disaster. My ideal scenario would be for Russ to just has one job in the closing minutes... catch the pass, drive, shoot in the lane or kick it out for a 3, and crash the boards. He does all those things really well.
