‘Trump Is What Happens When a Political Party Abandons Ideas’

So if I get a degree in underwater basket weaving at DeVry University, I am now superior to the un-degreed engineer making 100k+?

This sounds like one of those 3 million more voter consultation prizes.

 

Not really true. The GOP and Reagan big idea was "I love my country; I fear my government". Let big money rule without any regulation or counter balancing power. Trash government and make it ineffective so little guys would vote to "drown it in a bathtub" and decrease the taxes on the rich. Trump is pretty vulgar in style, but Reagan would approve with what the GOP has done overall.

 

No... This is more of old money vs new. Many Trump voters are from old money, which means many of the wealthy current gen are wealthy without any individual merit. There are many Trumps and Jared Kushners running around in the world.

I would think most engineers if they would chose between the two, would prefer Hillary. Haven't met many in my field that are pro Trumpists.

You also aren't going to convince me that Trump voters really actually care about things like retraining workers in a dying industry which is the most pragmatic solution.

Unfortunately we live in a world were wealth has little correlation with individual merit especially once you get in the 7 figure worth range. Wealthy people know how to keep the wealth in the family. It really has nothing to do with obtaining a high level discernible skill such as engineering. Engineers aren't that wealthy. Most just have a respectable salary hovering around 90k. You can obtain an engineer's salary by joining the military with a GED and then getting out and deploying overseas with private contractors. I wouldn't call those people educated.

What's a un-degreed engineer? Engineers in this country need to pass a FE exam and graduate from a ABET accredited university. You aren't an engineer if you haven't received the proper certifications.

 

I wouldn't call Trump voters old money. Business owners really do feel the government makes it harder because of issues like the environment championed more by democrats


This is nothing new or unique to Trump

 

Exactly Glynch.

Nothing new here

I find it hilarious that some Republicans are trying to cast Trump as this outsider. The Republicans have been using wedge issues to round up voters since Nixon. Race, religion, have vs have nots, etc.

Everyone thought the party was on the verge of extension because of losing those voters. Trump in in his bombastic rhetoric rounded up the same dying breed of voters.

 

What evidence do you have of this? None. Less than 5% of the people make $200,000+ a year. And 200k is not exactly wealthy, considering many of these live in high COL strongholds like DC, California and New York. Even if every 1%er voted for Trump, it still doesn't constitute 'many' in the grand scheme of things.

If a company hires a person as an engineer, pays them as an engineer, the person performs appropriately as an engineer and the company presents them as an engineer, then by all means they are an engineer.

If one goes to school to be an engineer and gets the proper certs but unable to perform as an engineer, they are not an engineer.

We can argue semantics all day long, but the point being just because most people with a liberal arts/humanities degree voted for Clinton doesn't some how make them more intelligent than Trump voters.

 

I'm involved in two small local businesses. I'm more annoyed at the local government ineptness and regulations than any federal regulations.

Environment protections are important and if there isn't reasonable regulations, business, especially large one will abuse it. This is common through out the world with lax environmental protection laws and regulations, or government corruption.

Everything should be reasonable and not extreme. You often talk in extreme with little sense. No more big government yet infrastructure? Clinton gave up and that's why she lost yet you can't back up that weird claim while saying Dem don't get it? Busn really feel government (implying fed) get in their way, but that's at least no true from my perspective relatively vs local government.

Maybe you are just frustrated but dang, it's hard to understand your views. It unfortunately add to the notion that Trump sympathizer do not think through but just act on some raw emotion.

 

Actually that isn't how industry works. This is especially the case with civil engineers. You need to be to be certified as an actual engineer to sign off on on any design plans. Our regulatory system doesn't just allow anyone to do that as you claim.

There are many professions that are 'engineers' but in reality they are nothing more than technicians. I think you are mistaking technicians as engineers. It's not that egregious of a mistake honestly. Train conductors used to be called engineers.

Today, Engineering is specifically using advanced mathematics and scientific principles to design. The people you are referring to don't do that.

 

Trump is an outsider to the current RNC establishment just as Bernie is an outside to the current DNC establishment. However both of these guys represent their party better from 2-3 decades ago.

The difference is the RNC let their voters decide on their candidate while the DNC chooses their candidate and ensures it with their super delegate nonsense. And the liberals are wondering why they are losing left and right.

 

I did not realize engineering was only limited to government regulated interactions. Thank you for mansplaining that to me. Let me go tell the other 80% of engineers who never talk to the customers they really aren't engineers because their work is not approved or regulated by the government.

 

I know at least two and suspect many mores. Not necessary pro, but more inline with Trump.

One believe in the deep state. Serious belief. Well learnt person and very intelligent person.

One think DEM are evil. Hate is the right word here. Not religious himself, but think liberal are evil. Science is junk. Global warming is not real. Also intelligent person.

I can't explain it, can't understand it.

 

Also read what I edited on my post. You are confusing technicians for engineers.

All forms of products that require any form of engineering have a regulatory system where an actual certified engineer has to sign off.

 

The voter chooses their candidate in both cases. Both the DNC and RNC have their preference. The DNC did some things, but not the point of choosing their candidate. Super delegate wouldn't have made a difference. That's a BS you keep on repeating.

 

From my experience most keep their political opinions to themselves. I haven't really met any vocal political activists in the engineering community. I know many that roll their eyes when someone brings up political discussion regardless of the side.

 

same here. These two I mentioned aren't vocal, but are two of my friends, so I get to know their thoughts. But still, I do not understand how such viewpoints are held. We just agree to not understand each other political views . I should said the hate I mentioned is at a distance. Very polite and nice in person.

 

Checking back in, there is still no discussion or response to the OP and the fascinating article. It's still "liberals are worse." Or "here are the liberal problems," or "here's why liberals are losing." It's really fascinating.

If someone, like the article's author, who believes in ideas, analysis, and factual information is out of step with modern voters, I'd like to hope we can all agree this is a huge problem. It is fundamentally saying a rejection of Enlightenment thinking is okay if our team is winning. Dark Age going with hunches and superstition will be fine for a while, as long as the liberals are losing.

The thread reminds me of the following, by analogy to the GARM. It's like a thread about the fundamental problems with the Rockets, where a group of posters keep coming in to say, "yeah, but the Lakers are a laughing stock! Hahahaha! They will keep losing because Magic is dumb!" That's all fine and true, but it doesn't really give us any additional hope for the Rockets' prospects, or at least, it wouldn't give me much additional hope.

We have a dominant party in American politics, for now. Congrats. We should be able to talk about fundamental problems in that party for the good of the country, IMHO. It's even more important than when we have a mixed/split governance, right? It is totally possible that the factors leading to its great success, (including gerrymandering, bite-sized sloganeering, and a substitution of acidic team politics over policy), are also what make it maybe not so good for the health of the country. It is totally conceivable and a legitimate consideration. The final question to me, over all others, is this: is dominance in politics more important to people than a healthy country? Yes, the two can coincide, but it's pretty clear they are not overlapping much right now. Our country has some very fundamental, deep problems in multiple areas.

Cheers and I'm out for a while from D&D. Best wishes to all y'all and to the US of A as we approach the 4th.

 

Seriously? The whole point of super delegates is to keep people like Trump from hijacking the nomination from the chosen candidate...in other words, super delegates are there to help ensure the DNC's candiate wins.

Bernie is not part of the DNC establishment. There is evidence the DNC was ready to sink Bernie if he gained any type of momentum. Bernie never stood a chance.

If Clinton and Bernie were the only two on the DNC ticket and the DNC was willing to work against Bernie, what makes you think you had a choice in the candidate? Stop lying to yourself.

 

Its a big concern for me why Democrats are losing. Just as its a big concern when Republicans lose. I do not want any party to have full dominance over our government. If Democrats dont get their **** together, then we will continue to have the likes of Trump, Sessions, Ryan, and McCain. The Republicans went off the deep end over the last decade or so and the Democrats are following right behind them. You should be just as ashamed of Clinton as you are of Trump.

 

You've actually just put on full display that you've bought into the narrative by regurgitating what the media flimsily threw out there. You've bought into the mindset of black and white, left and right, good and evil.

That 'stat' doesn't disprove any of what I just said. Trump beating Clinton has absolutely nothing to do with those FACTS. All those things happened in actual fact. All those grievances were made public more so by those people than Trump himself. Those factories closed, and decimated those cities, then those families, then nothing was done to save those people. There is a reason that wall is not getting built anytime soon. It doesn't work for rich people who want dirt cheap labor just like in gulf countries, but want to claim that the sub standard of living is a product of MEXICANS. lol

If you want to keep ignoring your fellow citizens who are clearly in despair and, like everyone else, have no decent representatives through which to bring about change that generally aligns with their principles.... go ahead. None of you are doing ok, and it's being made worse by this silly game.

 

So now you taking a guess and assume that's factual? The fact is it never came into play and it didn't matter in 2016. Outside of that fact is your opinion and guesswork. Call it that if you want, but stop the BS that it's factual that the DNC chooses Clinton when it was the voters that did.

http://www.politifact.com/florida/s...-wasserman-schultz-says-superdelegates-never/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ald-trump-bernie-sanders-wouldnt-have-won-ev/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/superdelegates-might-not-save-hillary-clinton/