Questions from a Trump Supporter

I may or may not post responses to all of these. The problem is that most of the questions come from a place of misinformation so there is no real answer because the questions aren't valid. The only answer is to try and clear up the misunderstanding at the root of the question.

For instance...

3. Illegal immigrants get the same free healthcare any citizen is entitled to. It isn't actually free. If an American citizen couldn't pay, they could go to an emergency room and get the care and then not pay their bill. They could get arrested and get healthcare through where they are incarcerated. They could seek healthcare from charitable organizations.

That healthcare is not the same level of healthcare given with a decent insurance plan. It isn't preventative, doesn't include prescription drugs etc. Under Bernie's plan, they wouldn't have to pay deductibles or premiums. Their healthcare costs would go down. Having diseased people traveling about in our population isn't healthy for American citizens whether the infected person is an illegal immigrant or not. It is a protection to us all to provide health care.

That's just one question, and again it's based on misinformation so the question isn't really a valid one. Most of the questions are based on similar misinformation. So there isn't a way to really answer the questions just to correct the misconceptions about them.

 

My response is that most of this stuff is crap or hyperbole and people that take the time to research rather than reading the bullet points can get to the facts.

The first two comments I would make to your friend are:

Please provide a list of the non-Americans holding office.

Were you upset with Obama keeping his promises?

 

“Why are we having to deal with illegal immigrants? Doesn’t that mean NOT LEGAL?”
- that’s my favorite question. It makes no sense lol. Deporting them is one way of “dealing” with them. Holding a hearing to decide if they were actually illegal is another way. It’s like if anyone committed an ILLEGAL act and a juror asking “wait, why do we have to deal with them? Wasn’t the thing they did not legal?”

 

I can't wait to read the ANSWERS to these critical QUESTIONS.

 

I didn't realize liberals were so irresponsible -- if aliens from Mars invaded liberals would call them an Uber and take them straight to the no verification ID station.

 

LOL... trump supporter and from facebook. I was laughing so hard I can't read the rest...

 

So, an undocumented with a drivers license can have car insurance.

Putting their kids in a cage isn't going to pay for your car if you get into an auto accident with an unlicensed, uninsured driver.

 

”2) Why are they wanting to Give ILLEGALS everything and our VETERANS are going without or getting the bare minimum?“

Does everything include being a president, living in Whitehouse and getting paid by lying all day? Yeah, Trump is one of the illegals.

 

I was bracing for a gotcha question that might make me squirm a little, but it never came. Unless eye-rolls are squirming.

The best of these is probably #9. Not that I see a lot of lying about unemployment, but that the phenomenon is downplayed because media outlets don't want to give Trump credit. My own response to that one would be that: (1) I think the continued low employment is great, and the wage growth we've been seeing is also great and I want more of it; (2) I, in general, don't give presidents much credit/blame for unemployment or wage performance because there are many factors outside his control; (3) there isn't much reason to believe we wouldn't have had it anyway with some other president since it is a continuation of a post-recession trend that emerged under Obama; (4) we still have an economic disparity problem that can't be fixed with these small improvements; and (5) even with it's best face on, the unemployment performance does not justify having to eat **** with having a criminal in office.

And this last answer can probably be offered for any other bona fide a Trumper can offer -- whatever good thing Trump might have done or could possibly do in office I would gladly give away to not have to endure the abuses of power. If we can get through that part, then we can talk about what to do about illegal immigration and the rest, but we can't even get through that part.

 

I got excited when I saw the thread title, thinking "wow, maybe now we can finally have a rational discussion with a Trump supporter."

Then I saw the questions..........

 

And?

 

I wish I had never read those questions. My entire political paradigm has been shaken to the core. The answers matter not. The questions.

Now I understand mick fry Commodore MojoMan and, to some degree, moderate Democrat os frigonomic...

We must not let the Democrats get away with this...

 

My two cents...covered over two parts because I'm a little long winded.

- There are 15 states and Puerto Rico where they issue licenses to "Illegals" and all of them require proof that they have resided in that state long enough to at least file a tax return (which many "illegals" don't do in fear of being turned in). Some states require more like an unexpired passport or birth certificate from their home country.


As far as American citizens, in Texas, you have to bring in an application (same as non-citizens), an ID and a proof of social security number...that's it. Non-citizens actually have to bring in more (and by non-citizens, I'm not including "illegals" since they aren't allowed to have a license in the state) as they have to provide an update letter proving that they are allowed in the US every time.


Needless to say, no first-borns have to be brought in anywhere and it's likely that in the states that do allow "illegals" to get licenses, it's just as easy to get a license as a citizen.

- I'm a veteran and I don't get the bare minimum. But, I understand the point...why are "illegals" getting so much attention when Vets deserve attention as well. To that, I'd point out that the VA had been neglected for a long time leading to the "poor wait time" scandal that occurred this past decade.


One thing that was put off by our government was the fact that we have a lot of veterans getting older due to World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc and that we're all living longer. Because of that, the VA tends to be overwhelmed as they don't have enough people or resources to handle the amount of veterans that we do have. That's the fault of both sides (just as it will be the fault of both sides not handling the social security problem that will hit a flash point this decade).


Obama actually did try and make things better and Congress passed laws to provide more funds to Veteran's agencies. Obama also implemented a new GI Bill (much better than the last one that covers housing and books and can be transferred to dependents), changed VA policies so they wouldn't cook the books on wait times anymore, and implemented Veteran's Choice which allowed some vets to go into the private sector to get care. All of these changes were massive improvements over what was in place prior...that's not saying everything is fixed, but they did get better. Trump has taken credit for a lot of these changes even though they occurred before he came into office, but he at least hasn't repealed any of them. He's also worked to sign laws that help vets get jobs in the science industry and has expanded Obama's health care in the private sector push. No complaints about what he's done so far as a vet.


As far as "Illegals" getting everything, that's hyperbole and untrue. In no way are "illegals" getting more than what vets have access to. Now, if vets have gone off the grid or have chosen to not participate, there's not much the government can do except help them when possible.

- They want to give everyone free health care...at least some of them do.


But, as far as giving "Illegals" free health care, that's completely untrue. They want to give "illegals" access to health care...same as any citizen. That basically means that they can be covered by insurance companies and pay premiums and deductibles just like everyone else. As of now, they use free clinics or pay the high out-of-pocket costs that everyone would pay if they didn't have health care.


The reason that this matters is because, 1) it's good to be compassionate about other people and 2) people not getting care leads to increased use of free clinics or they resort to other means. Some of those means lead to more sickness and death which could spread, lead to more need to have government services get involved to assist, or see many people, that are pushed to the limit, resort to illegal means that could harm citizens.


The big thing on this is that we have about 10.5 million "Illegal" citizens in this country...even if you had the manpower and resources to try to deport them all, it would take time. At this point, realizing that this is an issue and working to at least alleviate some of the issues that go along with it without resorting to raising taxes is probably better than the alternative.

-Barely more than 1 percent of all abortions happen after 20 weeks. Scientific data also has shown that the fetus doesn't become alive until around 21-22 weeks and most abortions after that time are done because the mother is in danger. Speaking of which, the US currently has the highest maternal mortality rate among all developed countries (26.4 deaths per 100,000 live births) even though we spend more on health care than any other developed country. Also, that's up from 18/100,000 in 2015.


As far as abortions prior to 20 weeks, look at the alternative. Is it better to bring a child into the world that may not be taken care of or eventually given up. We have plenty of kids in our foster systems right now that need families and we have welfare programs that many feel are being abused. Disallowing abortions leads to more folks on welfare and/or more government intervention which means higher taxes. For those that hate abortion so much, please be willing to provide the care for those same babies and mothers that are moving forward without the ability to have an abortion.

- Illegal does mean Not Legal, yes.


But, we have to deal with them because there are 10.5 million here in the US. You can't just round them all up and put them somewhere else. Building a wall also won't help get rid of those that are already here and will do almost nothing to stop the flow. That same money that could go toward a wall could also go to more judges that will help process their cases faster, go to salaries for border patrol agents who don't make enough, go to programs to help find a solution that will work, and other options…all which require funding to help out.

 

Continued:

- According to Politifact, Trump has kept 18% of his promises and broken 17%. That's not someone who keeps his promises...but, it's also not why Trump is hated. Trump is hated because he's boorish, narcissistic, a huge liar, a poor example for our youth, and has hurt us on the world stage. We can do much better (and I'm not talking about Hillary).

- Because he was one of the highest ranking members of a sovereign country. How do you think we'd feel if someone came in and assassinated our Head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff? We'd be pretty pissed off and want blood.


But, we also want to avoid war with Iran. I know, Iran isn't the most liked country, but we've had enough wars. Wars mean death, or injuries to lots of young men which isn't fun to think about. Hell, I was in the military and had to deal first-hand with death on a regular basis. And, the retaliation from Iran ended up injuring a couple of hundred service members...again, those are folks that have to be taken care of, probably will deal with it for the rest of their lives, and then become vets that have to be taken care of...which leads to more taxes on top of the possibly billions/trillions that will have to be spent if we actually do end up at war with Iran.

- I'm assuming this was supposed to be "work in our government offices." The answer is, they can't, unless they are a citizen...which means that they are American.

- I'll admit, there are probably media outlets that do lie about data to push a narrative, but I've never heard respectable news outlets actually lie about numbers. Couple of things on this: 1) the "media" includes any source that tries to peddle information. It bothers me when folks just mention "the media" because that's like saying "all people" when it really is only 3 people. At least say, "left-wing media" when you complain, because Fox News, Breitbart, etc are all "media" even though they try and say they aren't (they're also mainstream media since most Americans are aware of there presence). 2) this is an issue across all media platforms, but there is a huge difference between journalists and folks on the news that give their opinions. The former are people that actually provide facts and details, the latter are a bunch of blowhards that are really no better than you or I. The folks on Fox and Friends, the 9-panel groups they get together on CNN, whatever they have on MSNBC...none of that is actual news...those folks aren't required to give facts...just say whatever they feel. Here's the thing, you don't have to listen to them, just like you don't have to listen to your family, friends, or neighbors if you don't want to.

- Some of us are worried that the economy is a paper tiger...we are running some of the highest deficits ever in a booming economy. Eventually, that bill is going to come due and we're all going to have to pay for it.


Stock markets being high don't really matter to folks that don't have stocks. 55% of the country owns stocks and not all of them have enough in stocks to have reaped the rewards. We currently have the biggest wealth gap in the history of our country and it isn't getting better under Trump.


The Trade deals may help us...they may now. We don't know until they happen and, so far, they haven't helped much. Our farmers have been hurt pretty bad and bailed out with a ton of government money while this has all been going on.


As far as why we want him gone, I answered that in the "Promises question up above."

 

Trump takes more credit for the economy than he deserves. The issues with Trump are not his promises, they are his actions that are destroying the fabric of our republic - meant to be respected by Dems and Republicans. The issue with Trump is his disdain for the intelligence community which protects us, his executive overreach that alarms even Republicans, and his treatment of other cultures as inferior.

 

One party wanted to be “business friendly” after Reagan amenity and one party wanted to better protect workers.

As a native texan who has watched Texas GOPers talk out of both sides of their mouths, I shrug.

 

I'm so flummoxed that I'm responding to myself...

Much like many many moderate Democrats, I am not leaving the party, the party left me...standing alone...with my vote in my hand.

dasvidaniya comrades