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Various PS3 tidbits (UT2K7, kind of new MGS4 info, follow-up to the E3 controversy)

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by RC Cola, Dec 7, 2005.

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RC Cola Member

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A few tidbits of info have hit the net in the past couple of days regarding the PS3 or something that relates to the PS3. Nothing individually that really stands out, but enough to make a thread out of all the info together.

First off, some new info from the January edition of PSM in on the net. Most of it deals with an interview with Epic regarding UT2K7. Here's that piece:

Unreal Tournament 2007

"For its 2k7 iteration (think of it like a sports game; the year's bumped ahead by one) the series is not just coming back to the console world - it's aiming to set a new benchmark for online multiplayer in the process"

Building a better battle

"We've been working on teh gameplay side of things for about a year," the game's lead designer, Steve Polge, told us as we first laid eyes on it. "We started off refining the basics, the movement and the weapons," he recounted. "We went back to the roots; played older UT games, other FPSs, so that it just feels really good." However, Polge wsa quick to add: "We're stilli n the early part of development." Judging by the level we saw, you wouldn't have thought it.

In a classic segue into "the really cool stuff," Polge quickly talked about the weapons being familiar, but enhanced, then got down to one of the major elements that could make UT2007 the PS3's online killer app: its vehicles. 'We're really innovating most with the vehicles," explained Polge. "We think it's something that will really translate well to teh console. It's actually one case where console controller is actually better suited for gameplay." (No, Epic Games doesn't have a PS3 boomerang controller - no one does - we controlled the dev kit with a stock dual shock 2).

Big guns are good. Big vehicles with bigger guns are better. There will be 18 in all, up from the six that debuted in UT2004. Executive Producer Jeff Morris landed an Axxon Cicada in front of us, giving us our first look at the detail achievable by pairing UE 3 with great artists. With its vertical wings, belly turrent, and nose art, it looked like the offspring of an aircraft from WWII and WWXXII. It was also difficult to look at it and not think that it would look perfectly at home in a big-budget Hollywood movie without needing to be pre-rendered.

Next up, we got to see the returning, but improved, Scorpion. This all-terrain vehicle nove becomes a self-destructing projectile if the player uses its newly added boost to rush enemies and then ejects before impact. It's also great for showing off how the game's ground vechicles have evolved from "floating boxes" to heavy feeling, realistically handling terrors of the terrain.

In fact, the vehicles have evolved to the point that entire battles can be played out using them. It's something that Morris had no problem with. "Where is the 'Twisted Metal Championship"', he wondered aloud. "There's no real leader of the vehicular combat genre on consoles. In fact, the genre has really evaporated over the years," he observed. "We see a real oppurtunity to bring that type of gameplay back in Unreal Tournament 2007."

The men (and women) behind the machines

We can't disagree with that, but this is a FPS, right? You're not just a car -- you're a man, woman, alien - a being packing some major firepower. Fear not, the foot soldier has not been forgotten.

At this point in development, the Onslaught mode is the major focus of the UT2007 team. The battlefields feature many elements well known to players of UTs past. capture nodes, turrents, and the like... but there are, of course, some new twists.

"We're tyring to give the level designers a lot more freedom to experiment with doing all new types of Onslaught levels," expalined Polge. 'We have special objectives now that can be mixed into the mode. We have low-key objectives like blow up this bridge, but they can also be very elaborate."

Morris is especially excited about this new aspect. "Even though you're still palying Onslaught, you know that if you complete this one special objective, for example, you're going to start out the next match in a really cool vehicle." He loves his vehicles.

How does all this cause and effect gameplay fit into the whole picture? "The other big thing we're adding in Ut2007 is a campaign called Warfare," explained Polge. "The outcome of one battle will realistically affect the next one. It gives a more story-driven aspect to the game, offline or online."

The design team is also very big on giving the player the freedom to change their role on the battlefield at any point. Polge explains: "We're not going to have classes. What we're tyring to do, though, is encourage people to take on roles." His example: "You can go and grab a sniper rifle and be a sniper for a while, but if you decide you're tired of doing that, you can play as an engineer by picking up some deployables, which are something els we're adding to UT 2007."

"Mines, energy barriers - we have a lot of ideas," he teased.

Blurring the off/online

“Even though it’s an online-oriented title, a staggering number of people play UT2004 offline,” Morris revealed to our amazement. “We always take the single player very seriously,” he continued. “One of the ways we’re doing that in UT2007 is by giving the characters lots of personality.” According to Morris, offline bots will interact with the player and each other much more realistically now. The game is set to incorporate Epic’s voice recognition technology for communicating with bots as well. “My goal is to be able to use natural words to banter with the bots,” Morris explained. “I want to say ‘Go take this point!’ to the bot and have him say ‘Nah, I don’t’ want to,’” taking it a step farther, Morris adds: “Then I’ll say ‘You WILL take that point!’ and then he goes ahead and does it. And that’s just that one guy’s personality.”

UT2007 is also set to include a deeper create-a-character feature than the previous games, enabling you to customize nearly every aspect of your character’s physique and battle gear.

Oh, the eye candy

Gameplay explained, the entire team want to regale us with details about the technology and art that makes UT2007 look so damn amazing. And hey, we were just as eager to listen. As the game’s executive producer explained to us in words and on the screen, the real time level we were in originally “looked too clean. Too sci-fi.” So the team decided to base it more in reality and give a grungier look to everything. “The cool thing is, every little grungy bit we added caught the light and gave the game an even more amazing look,” Morris explained as he pointed out the remarkably crisp floor and wall textures on the 720p display, light glinting off the floor’s diamond plate as the camera moved.

Yes, the game is targeted to run at 1280x720, a.k.a. 720p resolution if you have a high-definition display. We asked Epic Games vice president Mark Rein, who was also present at the demo, about the target frame rate. “It’s simply too early to say, but we’re aiming for it to be as high as possible,” he responded. For the record, the 720p, totally un-optimized build running on hardware less powerful than the final PS3 spec was clipping along at 49fps.

We asked Rein about the now famous E3 demo of UE3. How difficult was it, really, to get it up and running? “The only trick we did to make sure that the lighting looked right and shadows looked right when we were doing our E3 demo was to change the mode in the game engine from Direct X to Open GL,” he confirmed, adding: “There’s no difference in what you see running of this test bed PC [a high-end system with a $500+ NVIDIA 7800GTX video card] and the PS3, which is really amazing.”

“People are going to be totally blown away when the get a PS3 and play it,” Rein continued. “PC gamers are used to having the absolute cutting edge graphics – console players are just going to say ‘Wow!’” As for how PS3 will ultimately run the game? “When you see the [final] game running on PS3, it’s going to be smoother [than on the PC]. You’re not going to have the operating system in the way and all the other things that can make a PC game look ‘poppy,’” he said. Driving home the point, he added: “People ask me what the next generation is going to offer other than better graphics, and I say ‘Stop! Go back and look at the graphics!’ Don’t downplay that. People spend $600 on a video card to get this kind of performance on their PC, and this is a potentially sub- $500 console!”
Click to expand...

Some more from Epic (more of a paraphrase from another board):

Josh (a programmer) on coding for PS3 "really a night and day difference" from what he was used to on PS2. Easier? "There's just a lot more preexisting knowledge you can apply from the entire game development world," he elaborated. "You don't have to learn everything all over again. So in that way, it's a huge difference"

Sweeney (lead programmer) said he was happy Sony went with NVIDIA for PS3's graphics processor. He also said that its developer frinedly and "...allows us to get the best-looking games up and running much more quickly."

That's the end of the main reading part of the story. There are some screenshots and concept art with captions.

Get this, UT2007 is going to have hoverboards!! So now when you die, you don't have a long walk to get back to the action. It gets cooler...when you are riding it, can fire a "tow beam" and latch onto world objects and vehicles. So you can either hitch a ride or gather speed for clearing a large gap. And now get this, YOU CAN PULL OFF SSX-style tricks!!
Click to expand...

The following is supposed to be info from an interview with Kaz Hirai and Jack Tretton of Sony:

- they see lots of life left in PS2 well after PS3 is out

- Hairai says there will be lots of original franchises on the PSP next year
also want to expand Playstation experience to the handheld envrionment with existing franchises which aren't just ports, same name, different gameplay

- Sony still doesn't know when and which country they want to launch in first.

- Hirai on the PS3 slipping into 2007, not going to happen, they are still on track for a Spring 2006 launch

- Tretton on Microsoft's impact of a head start with xbox 360 "I dont' think it's a matter of time, but rather a matter of units."

- Both Sony guys said PS3 will be able to deliver the quality of visuals seen in the E3 demos. (perhaps even better) . " I think that, in the very near future, you'll see some comparable gameplay footage that will really put those rumors [that PS3 can't be as powerful as we're claiming it is] to bed."

- When will we get to play actual PS3 games on a real PS3? "...but what I can say is as soon as we feel that the quality of the software is up to where we expect it to be, and that we're confident of us being able to present that to everybody and everybody go home with the impression that, yes, these guys are really pusing the envelope in terms of what they bring to gameplay, graphic quality, and everything else." "... we'll present those games just as we're good and ready to go"

- Sony is still looking into pricing of the system

- another question about pricing and only certain hardcore people buying it... Bacially Hirai replies "we have a pretty good history of providing value for what we bring to the consumer"

- a question was asked (to Hirai, who remeber, is the Preisdent and Chief Executive officer) about the controller...it seems only one person has held the controller, Kutaragi. lol Here is a quote from Hirai. "Kutaragi actually showed it to me, and he was kind of waving it in my face, and when I tried to reach out for it, he said 'No,no,no,no,no -not yet!'"
Click to expand...

That last part wasn't really important, but I thought it was pretty funny.

That's about it from PSM. Next up, a few people from the Beyond3D forums (One and Metalgearih) put together a video from the realtime demo presentation of MGS4 back at TGS. Basically, it is a 8-9 minute video of Kojima and his team moving the camera around, showing off various affects, and commenting about what they've done (EX:Snake's moustache has as many vertices as a soldier from MGS3). These guys translated their words into subtitles at the bottom, so now we can understand what they're saying. Here's some links to the video:
http://files.filefront.com/MGS4_PS3_Devkit_Demo_Eng_subs/;4440530;;/fileinfo.html
http://www.gamesmediamirror.com/leech_2074_1_en.html

Lastly, there are reports that the Motor Storm trailer from E3 was in fact realtime and not prerendered. IIRC, basically, they disabled the AI and some "game logic" and ran it in realtime; of course, exactly what defines "game logic" is unknown. Here's where the original source came from:
http://www.control-freaks.tv/
(scroll down the menu on the right and view the "Motor Storm on PS3" clip)

#1 RC Cola, Dec 7, 2005

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Were those not good enough for you guys? Fine, here's some more info from PSM:

Here's information I gathered from the interview. Everything in quotes is from Kojima. Everything else is in my words.

- "...Snake is on a mission not to go to a certain place, but a battlefield"

- In MGS4, everyone around you may not be your enemy

- "The whole environment changes in real time, so the player controling Snake has the option to make any sort of involvement they woul dlike to in order to progress the game"

- Snake will go into multiple battles (different locations)

- "...But in the near-future war, it's more like a business, so there's lots of money involved, meaning they'll hire mercenaries to fight on behalf of their country."

- Kojima gives his prediction of what war will be like in the future and it seems that's what will be portrayed in MGS4. If you have seen the trailer you have somewhat of an idea of his vision. Reading this reminds me of Mercenaries. Each country fighting each other through the use of mercenaries/bounty hunters.

- Kojima is still working out how many years after MGS2 this game will take place. He said it might be as many as 10 years.

- Snake is aging faster because he is a clone. Apparently that's because the cloning technology was new in the 70s. I guess you can say it wasn't polished.

- The whole thing with sanke injecting something into his neck in the trailer may not be in the game.

- Kojima said " I might have second thoughts about a younger Snake if everyone thinks he looks too old."

- CQC will return in MGS4 "People will have question marks if Snake can do CQC, but if you follow the story, you'll understand why he has it."

- stamina will probably make a return in MGS4; "...still undecided on the food capture system."

- The little Metal Gear with Otacon on it will replace the codec and be used for communication

- will it only be Otacon on it? "That's a secret."

ok, I will right this question out...

Will you ever control it yourself to scout ahead or take pictures?

"Yes. We're tyring to do it at this stage, but if the game comes out and those features are not in the game, please realize that it was because we couldn't do it for a good reason. We had the plan for a remote controlled robot for even MGS2, however, due to the specs of the PS2, we couldn't do it."

- Kojima has thought about having a second player or even using the PSP to control it

- Kojima on the bigger robots in the trailer; "I cannot say what that is or what it will do because of the plot. What I can say is taht the leg part of what you saw is not 100% robot. It's like biotechnology. It's kind of like a cyborg. Think of it as the ninja suit in MGS1. If you shoot the leg, blood comes out. But it's very fast because it's not a robotic thing - it's got muscles. So it can move quite fast.

The upper part is a robot and is AI controlled. It's not very smart. We're gong to let you in on a little secret regarding that machine. If you watch the trailer again, when it comes out you can hear the crying noise of the cicada bug. In Japan, when you hear the cries of cicada, to most japanese people, it automatically makes them think of summer. And then it brings you back to your childhood, because there was so much nature in the past, so many cicada.

The footsteps soudn it makes is acutally a horse. When it approaches you, you have the cicada sound and the sound of a horse approaching you. Also, the cires of the machine are from a cow. So, there's a horse, a cow, and a cicada. All that combined gives you a natural feeling. This is the mental, psychological way to kill an enemy. See, in a battlefield you have a tense feeling. But when this machine approaches you, you have the horse soud, and the cow cry, and the cicada cry, and it makes you forget where you are and think about your childhood. You feel a little peaceful."

And then they strike?

"Yes, then they attack. So it's very psychological"

Can you talk about how Raiden is involved in the story?

"Should Raiden appear? [Laugher]

- Raiden is popular in Japan; there making him a cool character this time. "There's even potential you'll like him more than Snake!"

- "...in MGS4, yes, we will try to make Snake control anything that's possible" That was reffering to vehicles.
Click to expand...

Here's some info from the Ted Price (pres. and CEO, Insomniac games)

PSM: Okay, first things first: We're totally excited about "I-8." There has not be something you can tell us about it other than "it's still in development".

Ted Price: Ha-ha! Nope.

- Price said we will learn more about the game "very soon"

- Ted Price, as a developer, says memory and processing power excites him most about working with the PS3. Also, he seems to love Blu-Ray Disc format

- He says PS3 has more raw horsepower and eventually (as developers learn)the gap will widen between 360 and PS3. In favor of the PS3 of course.

PSM: What's one big thing you can tell us about your next game that will get us even more excited about it?

Ted Price: While there aren't any Lambaxes in the game, you definitely get to blow lots of stuff up! Plus we'll be drawing 529,670,000,000 polygons per frame (give or take a few), the game will be run by an AI that can also do your taxes or your homework for you and we'll support full-body biofeedback suits. Probably. (Editor's note; Ted is just being silly here. We think. You never know...)
Click to expand...

BTW, I forgot to mention that all this PSM stuff is from TXB (think Zbox in particular).

#2 RC Cola, Dec 7, 2005
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Sweet MGS4 video. Thanks for the links & articles. 360 is in for a real beat down.

#3 IROC it, Dec 8, 2005
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RC do you know if I can use an old PS2 controller if the new PS3 controller doesnt feel right in my hand??

#4 Davidoff, Dec 8, 2005
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I guess Sony (or some other 3rd party) could release a wireless controller with the same design as the PS1/PS2 controller, or they could release a USB "connector" (can't think of a better word) that will go into one of the USB ports and you'll be able to directly connect a controller into that. All speculation on my part though. Despite the fact that Sony has said the PS3 will be BC will the PS1/PS2, they mentioned very little about how we will be able to use the older controllers/memory cards since there are no ports/slots for those on the machine. I imagine there will be a solution to both that will work out, especially the controller if a lot of people don't like it, but there's very little info on this subject.

#5 RC Cola, Dec 8, 2005
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that controller they have for the PS3 is the stupidest thing I seen. Almost every single person I know agrees that the dual shock is the best controller ever made, there's no reason to go reinvent the wheel.

#6 hotballa, Dec 8, 2005
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How could you not like this controller?

I don't really understand why they changed it either. I can only hope that it feels very different from what it looks like. IIRC, there was a 3rd party controller (PS1 I think) that looked pretty much the same and got some good reviews. Hopefully, that's true for this one as well...or else there's going to be some problems.

#7 RC Cola, Dec 8, 2005

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Yea, its about time we got some new info on the PS3..those info was all over the net. Funny, only one dude got a hold of that issue...everyone else inlcuding myself didn't get it yet and I actually just got my Dec. issue two weeks ago.

My thoughts...

_"For the record, the 720p, totally un-optimized build running on hardware less powerful than the final PS3 spec was clipping along at 49fps."

I remembered reading CliffyB's(director/designer) blog where he said GOW was optimized on the final 360 kit and they were having a hard time getting it above 24fps. I wonder if UT07 will come out for the 360? This would be a good tech comparison between the two system and to see which would be easier to use the Unreal Engine on as well as which will use less source to get more out of the graphics.

_Both Sony guys said PS3 will be able to deliver the quality of visuals seen in the E3 demos. (perhaps even better) . " I think that, in the very near future, you'll see some comparable gameplay footage that will really put those rumors [that PS3 can't be as powerful as we're claiming it is] to bed."

I think those rumors was aim towards the Killzone and MotorStorm vid. I'm sorry, but I have to see them with my own eye to believe those kind of claims...
CES is coming up soon in January, will that be the day we will see the actual games, considering the 360 hype will be at a low, or will they still continue to push the PS2 and PSP and wait until E3 in march to showcase the PS3 games?

_
- Sony still doesn't know when and which country they want to launch in first.

A World-wide launch maybe?

Yea, I saw that MGS4 edited video. The most impressive thing was the fact that Octagon on that LCD was also real-time...thats crazy. They moved the camera around his face and you could see that it isn't flat where you could see the sides of his face and such. I also like the demo of the self-shadowing.

I will have more on this later...

#8 noize, Dec 8, 2005
Last edited: Dec 8, 2005
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noize said:

- Sony still doesn't know when and which country they want to launch in first.

A World-wide launch maybe?
Click to expand...

I think I remember a post of RCs saying that Sony wasnt going to a global launch.. IIRC

#9 Davidoff, Dec 8, 2005
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noize said:

I remembered reading CliffyB's(director/designer) blog where he said GOW was optimized on the final 360 kit and they were having a hard time getting it above 24fps. I wonder if UT07 will come out for the 360? This would be a good tech comparison between the two system and to see which would be easier to use that Epic engine on as well as which will use less source to get more out of the graphics.
Click to expand...

I think Epic said that the 360 would get GOW and the PS3 would get UT2K7. FWIW, even though CliffyB seems to be having some issues getting the game at 30 or more FPS (compared to the ~50 FPS for UT2K7 on the PS3, unoptimized), keep in mind that they are two different games. They're both using UE3.0, but GOW may be more demanding on the hardware. The comparison is better than nothing, but still not a great indicator of performance on the consoles.

Unless you meant UT2K7 being a good comparison, if it was on both consoles, which I would agree with.

noize said:

I think those rumors was aim towards the Killzone and MotorStorm vid. I'm sorry, but I have to see them with my own eye to believe those kind of claims...
CES is coming up soon in January, will that be the day we will see the actual games, considering the 360 hype will be at a low, or will they still continue to push the PS2 and PSP and wait until E3 in march to showcase the PS3 games?
Click to expand...

Yeah, CES (or January in particular I guess) sounds like a great time to start unleashing all this stuff IMO. As you said, the Xbox 360 hype will start to die down by then; releasing info any time prior to Christmas wouldn't really have a big effect on 360 sales. I imagine Sony also wants to give the PS2 and PSP the Christmas holidays w/o deterring sales with PS3 info, but once that's over, they might start getting ready for launch. Or at least that's what I hope.

I do recall that about a week ago, the Heavenly Sword website showed some sort of countdown for something, but it was then taken down shortly afterwards. I believe it was later mentioned that it was supposed to be for CES, but the guy put it up too soon. That's one game I'd love to see more of.

BTW, I take it you meant May, not March, for E3? Hopefully, the “Playstation Event” or whatever they called it is still good to go in February. We might not have to wait much longer after CES for more PS3 news if that’s the case.

noize said:

A World-wide launch maybe?
Click to expand...

If they do that, they better be ready for it. It might not be as bad as launching during the holiday season, but there will still be A LOT of demand. Maybe a Japan/NA release would work a little better, although still pretty difficult.

edit:

Da-Glyde said:

I think I remember a post of RCs saying that Sony wasnt going to a global launch.. IIRC
Click to expand...

I may have. Although I forgot. Can't remember if Sony has explicitly said no global launch, but it would be REALLY hard for them to do it, and therefore, a bit unlikely IMO. Something more like "Japan release->NA release---------->Europe release--->everyone else" probably. Or maybe a Japan/NA release as I said earlier.

#10 RC Cola, Dec 8, 2005
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didnt they just layoff like 10,000 people? their asses bettah do a worldwide launch. I'm tired of Sony trating American gamers like stepchildren

#11 hotballa, Dec 8, 2005
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So coming from the developer's mouth these screen shots are in real-time with AI turn off...

#12 noize, Dec 8, 2005
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Here's a very early screens of UT07...these are already confirmed to be real-time from that tech demo back at E3 using the Unreal Engine.

#13 noize, Dec 8, 2005

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To be honest, the Motor Storm guy in the video only said something like "That was faithful. That's all PS3," or something like that. It was the reporter in the video that went on to comment that it was real-time without AI and game logic (again, what's game logic?).

FWIW some of the pics actually make it look worse, showing off some jaggies and other things you couldn't see in motion. Like this one for example (same as one of your screens, but at the native resolution I believe):
http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/614/614797/motorstorm-20050516073451233.jpg

IMO, this part doesn't seem to hard to believe as real-time:

All that said, I'm still not completely sold on these comments regarding Motor Storm, especially since it was the reporter that said most of the specifics. Personally, I think that a game that looks like Motor Storm would be possible on the PS3 (at least in areas), but it would have been VERY hard to get that running in real-time at E3 on early hardware. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

#14 RC Cola, Dec 8, 2005
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Cheez, that gif is ugly and I don't think it showcases MS's graphics too well. I wanted to believe that it was real-time when I first saw that blown up pic(native res) b/c of all the jaggies, but I've heard rumors that it was run through some filter scan program on a pc to make it look real, with some noticeable imperfection.

#15 noize, Dec 8, 2005
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noize said:

Cheez, that gif is ugly and I don't think it showcases MS's graphics too well.
Click to expand...

Of course it doesn't, it's a 1.5MB GIF file.

I didn't literally mean that the visuals in the GIF were possible; I was talking about that particular part of the trailer. It looks like a gameplay-type view, so we might be able to expect that.

As for the rumors about them trying to put in imperfections, I suppose that could be a possibility. This is starting to sound kind of funny though. On one hand, you have people saying that it is definitely CGI since there's no imperfections or any indications of it being done in real-time; then, when there are some signs of it, they say that it is just CGI with some imperfections added in to make it look authentic. Not saying it isn't true, but I find it pretty funny.

BTW, here's some screens of what Evolution Studios have been able to do on the PS2:

#16 RC Cola, Dec 8, 2005
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Damn, what game was that screen from? It looks just as good if not better then GT4...especially that first screen, that is very nice. Evolution Studio is a pretty damn talented group, so maybe MotorStorm will end up looking as good as those video.

#17 noize, Dec 8, 2005
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I think it is called World Rally Championship (WRC). Not sure which version those screens are from though. I don't think many of the WRC games made it here in the US, only in Europe and Japan mostly. They're a very talented studio when it comes graphics, no doubt about it.

#18 RC Cola, Dec 8, 2005

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Are any places accepting pre-orders for the PS3? I don't want to fall into the situation I did when I pre-ordered my XBOX360 (only to still not have it to this day).

So, if there are any places I need to go put my 50 dollars down on it now.

#19 halfbreed, Dec 8, 2005
RC Cola Member

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I don't know if any places have officially started taking them, but you might be able to work out a preorder at a local EB or Gamestop. I think I read somewhere that they could put you down as preordering a game or something, and then when they start taking preorders, they could then transfer you over to the system.

#20 RC Cola, Dec 8, 2005

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